WEBVTT

00:00:01.001 --> 00:00:03.086 align:center line:-1
Kwe, bonjour and hello.

00:00:03.086 --> 00:00:05.422 align:center line:-2
I'm Gilbert Le Gras,
Special Advisor

00:00:05.422 --> 00:00:08.258 align:center line:-2
to the Chief of Professional
Conduct and Culture.

00:00:08.258 --> 00:00:09.885 align:center line:-1
I would like to acknowledge

00:00:09.885 --> 00:00:11.970 align:center line:-2
that we are recording
this conversation

00:00:11.970 --> 00:00:16.767 align:center line:-2
on the unceded territory of the
Algonquin Anishinaabe People.

00:00:16.767 --> 00:00:20.020 align:center line:-2
The Chief of Professional
Conduct and Culture consulted

00:00:20.020 --> 00:00:23.482 align:center line:-2
more than fifteen thousand
Defence Team members

00:00:23.482 --> 00:00:25.234 align:center line:-2
and heard
a lot of questions about

00:00:25.234 --> 00:00:27.611 align:center line:-2
how to have difficult
conversations with subordinates.

00:00:27.611 --> 00:00:30.864 align:center line:-2
So, we turn to the experts
for some ideas

00:00:30.864 --> 00:00:32.783 align:center line:-1
on how to navigate this space.

00:00:32.783 --> 00:00:35.994 align:center line:-2
Melanie Michaud is
the associate Ombuds

00:00:35.994 --> 00:00:38.789 align:center line:-2
and director of the Informal
Conflict Management System

00:00:38.789 --> 00:00:40.749 align:center line:-1
of the Department of Justice.

00:00:40.749 --> 00:00:42.543 align:center line:-1
She was elected champion

00:00:42.543 --> 00:00:45.212 align:center line:-2
of the Federal Informal
Conflict Management System

00:00:45.212 --> 00:00:47.297 align:center line:-1
in December 2020.

00:00:47.297 --> 00:00:50.092 align:center line:-1
Melanie has extensive experience

00:00:50.092 --> 00:00:52.302 align:center line:-2
in the conflict
management field,

00:00:52.302 --> 00:00:54.805 align:center line:-2
particularly
with coaching individuals

00:00:54.805 --> 00:00:58.976 align:center line:-2
and working with teams
on group dynamics.

00:00:58.976 --> 00:01:02.104 align:center line:-2
Geneviève Lord is
the Director General

00:01:02.104 --> 00:01:04.565 align:center line:-2
of Conflict Solutions
and Services

00:01:04.565 --> 00:01:08.443 align:center line:-2
in the Chief of Professional
Conduct and Culture team.

00:01:08.443 --> 00:01:11.405 align:center line:-2
Programs under
her leadership include

00:01:11.405 --> 00:01:14.032 align:center line:-2
the delivery of conflict
solution services

00:01:14.032 --> 00:01:18.787 align:center line:-2
through Conflict and Complaint
Management Service Centres

00:01:18.787 --> 00:01:20.956 align:center line:-1
located across Canada.

00:01:20.956 --> 00:01:23.876 align:center line:-2
Programs under
Geneviève's leadership

00:01:23.876 --> 00:01:27.379 align:center line:-2
at the CPCC's Conflict Solutions
and Services Director General

00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.340 align:center line:-2
include the delivery
of conflict solutions

00:01:30.340 --> 00:01:32.593 align:center line:-1
and services across Canada

00:01:32.593 --> 00:01:34.094 align:center line:-1
through the Conflict

00:01:34.094 --> 00:01:36.346 align:center line:-2
and Complaint Management
Services Centres,

00:01:36.346 --> 00:01:38.765 align:center line:-2
Canadian Forces
Grievance Authority,

00:01:38.765 --> 00:01:41.727 align:center line:-2
harassment prevention
and resolution programs,

00:01:41.727 --> 00:01:43.604 align:center line:-1
CAF human rights complaints,

00:01:43.604 --> 00:01:45.772 align:center line:-2
and several leadership
support programs,

00:01:45.772 --> 00:01:49.026 align:center line:-2
such as the Defence Team
Coaching Program,

00:01:49.026 --> 00:01:53.488 align:center line:-2
restorative services,
and the leadership support team.

00:01:53.488 --> 00:01:58.452 align:center line:-2
I once read that a problem
avoided is a crisis invited,

00:01:58.452 --> 00:02:01.496 align:center line:-2
which brings me to the heart
of our discussion today.

00:02:01.496 --> 00:02:04.124 align:center line:-2
How do you have
a difficult conversation

00:02:04.124 --> 00:02:07.044 align:center line:-2
in today's increasingly
diverse workplace?

00:02:07.044 --> 00:02:10.881 align:center line:-2
Nearly one in four Canadians
was born outside Canada.

00:02:10.881 --> 00:02:14.843 align:center line:-2
That's 23% of people in Canada
who were born outside of Canada.

00:02:14.843 --> 00:02:16.929 align:center line:-1
The federal government,

00:02:16.929 --> 00:02:18.847 align:center line:-1
which tries to set the example

00:02:18.847 --> 00:02:20.682 align:center line:-2
as the country's
biggest employer,

00:02:20.682 --> 00:02:23.352 align:center line:-2
has apologized
for past harms to,

00:02:23.352 --> 00:02:26.772 align:center line:-2
and is trying to make itself
a more welcoming place

00:02:26.772 --> 00:02:30.651 align:center line:-2
for members of the 2SLGTBQIA+
communities

00:02:30.651 --> 00:02:33.445 align:center line:-2
and for employees
who are Black, Indigenous,

00:02:33.445 --> 00:02:35.280 align:center line:-1
and people of colour.

00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:36.823 align:center line:-1
That's a lot of diversity

00:02:36.823 --> 00:02:39.368 align:center line:-2
and having hired
and supervised employees,

00:02:39.368 --> 00:02:41.620 align:center line:-2
I can understand
that sometimes it's not easy

00:02:41.620 --> 00:02:44.581 align:center line:-2
to handle with certain subjects
and deal with all that.

00:02:44.581 --> 00:02:48.961 align:center line:-2
Geneviève and Melanie
have offered to talk to us

00:02:48.961 --> 00:02:51.588 align:center line:-2
about the stages
of difficult conversations.

00:02:51.588 --> 00:02:54.550 align:center line:-1
First, how to disarm resistance

00:02:54.550 --> 00:02:57.094 align:center line:-2
by creating
a safe space to talk.

00:02:57.094 --> 00:02:59.054 align:center line:-1
Then, how to allow for emotions

00:02:59.054 --> 00:03:01.682 align:center line:-2
without necessarily condoning
the attitudes or behaviours

00:03:01.682 --> 00:03:03.600 align:center line:-1
that are at issue.

00:03:03.600 --> 00:03:06.228 align:center line:-2
Also, how to be
appropriately assertive.

00:03:06.228 --> 00:03:09.815 align:center line:-2
And finally, how to best
conclude the conversation.

00:03:09.815 --> 00:03:12.025 align:center line:-1
I suppose avoidance must be

00:03:12.025 --> 00:03:15.571 align:center line:-2
one of the most common
forms of resistance.

00:03:15.571 --> 00:03:21.076 align:center line:-2
Melanie, tell us about your
experiences and advice here.

00:03:21.076 --> 00:03:23.745 align:center line:-1
I would agree with you, Gilbert.

00:03:23.745 --> 00:03:26.707 align:center line:-2
Avoidance is definitely
a very common form

00:03:26.707 --> 00:03:30.002 align:center line:-2
that we see,
a very tempting form as well

00:03:30.002 --> 00:03:33.130 align:center line:-2
in how to deal
with difficult situations

00:03:33.130 --> 00:03:35.924 align:center line:-1
or difficult conversations.

00:03:35.924 --> 00:03:40.387 align:center line:-2
However, by avoiding
important issues

00:03:40.387 --> 00:03:42.931 align:center line:-2
or avoiding important
conversations,

00:03:42.931 --> 00:03:45.809 align:center line:-2
we often, actually,
worsen the situation

00:03:45.809 --> 00:03:49.855 align:center line:-2
and help the conflict
or the situation in escalating.

00:03:49.855 --> 00:03:52.608 align:center line:-1
So, I think when thinking about

00:03:52.608 --> 00:03:54.693 align:center line:-1
how to create a safe space,

00:03:54.693 --> 00:03:58.363 align:center line:-2
how do we set up a potential
difficult conversation,

00:03:58.363 --> 00:04:02.159 align:center line:-2
what can help is seeing
resistance as a natural part

00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:04.703 align:center line:-1
of the process,

00:04:04.703 --> 00:04:08.457 align:center line:-2
that it's common,
it's to be expected.

00:04:08.457 --> 00:04:11.668 align:center line:-2
Avoidance is not
the only form of resistance.

00:04:11.668 --> 00:04:15.172 align:center line:-2
Resistance can show up
as silence,

00:04:15.172 --> 00:04:18.050 align:center line:-1
as over flooding with facts,

00:04:18.050 --> 00:04:23.555 align:center line:-2
as maybe wanting to go
to resolution right away,

00:04:23.555 --> 00:04:25.766 align:center line:-2
as well, or proposing
many different ways

00:04:25.766 --> 00:04:27.809 align:center line:-1
of resolving right away.

00:04:27.809 --> 00:04:29.811 align:center line:-2
So, all these are forms
of resistance.

00:04:29.811 --> 00:04:33.482 align:center line:-2
So, being conscious
of that resistance can come

00:04:33.482 --> 00:04:35.275 align:center line:-1
in different forms.

00:04:35.275 --> 00:04:39.446 align:center line:-2
Resistance is rarely meant
as personal, to attack you.

00:04:39.446 --> 00:04:44.076 align:center line:-2
So, by seeing it as part
of the process,

00:04:44.076 --> 00:04:46.620 align:center line:-2
you help creating
that safe space.

00:04:46.620 --> 00:04:48.872 align:center line:-1
Don't see it as a threat,

00:04:48.872 --> 00:04:51.625 align:center line:-2
because that often
just reinforces

00:04:51.625 --> 00:04:55.337 align:center line:-2
that it might become
more difficult to manage.

00:04:55.337 --> 00:04:58.924 align:center line:-2
So, by initiating
the conversation,

00:04:58.924 --> 00:05:02.761 align:center line:-2
trying to separate the person
from what is really going on,

00:05:02.761 --> 00:05:05.305 align:center line:-2
trying to see resistance
as a natural part of it,

00:05:05.305 --> 00:05:08.141 align:center line:-2
will definitely help setting
it up for success.

00:05:08.141 --> 00:05:10.018 align:center line:-1
What are you thinking?

00:05:10.018 --> 00:05:12.688 align:center line:-2
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's the basis

00:05:12.688 --> 00:05:15.983 align:center line:-2
of having those conversations
and ensuring the space

00:05:15.983 --> 00:05:18.694 align:center line:-2
and the time to have
the conversations,

00:05:18.694 --> 00:05:20.612 align:center line:-2
making sure
that it's the right time,

00:05:20.612 --> 00:05:24.241 align:center line:-2
that the person is ready
to hear the message

00:05:24.241 --> 00:05:25.909 align:center line:-2
that you're also trying
to convey,

00:05:25.909 --> 00:05:27.536 align:center line:-1
I think, is critical

00:05:27.536 --> 00:05:29.454 align:center line:-2
in setting those conversations
up for success.

00:05:29.454 --> 00:05:31.582 align:center line:-1
I would also offer, I think

00:05:31.582 --> 00:05:34.918 align:center line:-2
that the relationship building
is super important.

00:05:34.918 --> 00:05:37.838 align:center line:-2
Having difficult conversations
will be a lot easier,

00:05:37.838 --> 00:05:40.215 align:center line:-2
from my experience,
if you've taken the time

00:05:40.215 --> 00:05:42.968 align:center line:-2
to build those relationships
with your employees,

00:05:42.968 --> 00:05:45.053 align:center line:-2
with the people
that you work with.

00:05:45.053 --> 00:05:48.140 align:center line:-2
Asking things like,
on a personal level,

00:05:48.140 --> 00:05:50.893 align:center line:-2
what do they like to do,
do they have kids,

00:05:50.893 --> 00:05:54.688 align:center line:-2
those types of things that are
really relationship building

00:05:54.688 --> 00:05:57.649 align:center line:-2
and show interest
in the employee as a person.

00:05:57.649 --> 00:05:59.860 align:center line:-2
Also, makes
those difficult conversations

00:05:59.860 --> 00:06:02.446 align:center line:-2
a little bit easier
when tensions are running high

00:06:02.446 --> 00:06:04.323 align:center line:-2
and there's a lot
of things going on,

00:06:04.323 --> 00:06:06.158 align:center line:-1
emotions are running high,

00:06:06.158 --> 00:06:08.118 align:center line:-2
If you've taken time
to build that relationship,

00:06:08.118 --> 00:06:10.078 align:center line:-2
I find that those really,
those discussions are

00:06:10.078 --> 00:06:12.331 align:center line:-1
a little bit easier to have

00:06:12.331 --> 00:06:15.167 align:center line:-2
once you've taken
the time to do that.

00:06:15.167 --> 00:06:19.671 align:center line:-2
What you've shared is
very interesting.

00:06:19.671 --> 00:06:23.258 align:center line:-2
People don't always feel
properly equipped

00:06:23.258 --> 00:06:25.219 align:center line:-1
to resolve conflicts.

00:06:25.219 --> 00:06:27.846 align:center line:-2
Geneviève, how can your team
equip the members

00:06:27.846 --> 00:06:29.932 align:center line:-1
of the Defence Team?

00:06:29.932 --> 00:06:35.979 align:center line:-2
Definitely, Gilbert,
it's a very complicated space.

00:06:35.979 --> 00:06:39.650 align:center line:-2
People are often afraid
to have those conversations;

00:06:39.650 --> 00:06:42.903 align:center line:-2
they don't really know
how to go about it.

00:06:42.903 --> 00:06:45.405 align:center line:-2
They're afraid of the reaction
and they're afraid of emotions.

00:06:45.405 --> 00:06:48.992 align:center line:-2
So how can we really see
what's available?

00:06:48.992 --> 00:06:52.454 align:center line:-2
My team takes care
of service delivery

00:06:52.454 --> 00:06:55.958 align:center line:-2
in 16 service centres
across Canada.

00:06:55.958 --> 00:06:58.085 align:center line:-1
So, it's the service centres

00:06:58.085 --> 00:07:00.462 align:center line:-2
that handle complaints
and disputes.

00:07:00.462 --> 00:07:05.551 align:center line:-2
You can go to one of the centres
and you'll be greeted

00:07:05.551 --> 00:07:08.303 align:center line:-2
by an agent who will take
a look at the problem

00:07:08.303 --> 00:07:10.222 align:center line:-1
and suggest solutions,

00:07:10.222 --> 00:07:13.392 align:center line:-2
such as coaching
for difficult conversations,

00:07:13.392 --> 00:07:15.978 align:center line:-2
for either managers
and employees.

00:07:15.978 --> 00:07:19.940 align:center line:-2
How do we talk to our supervisor
about difficult situations?

00:07:19.940 --> 00:07:23.026 align:center line:-2
We also have conflict
management practitioners

00:07:23.026 --> 00:07:25.445 align:center line:-2
who will really be able
to guide you

00:07:25.445 --> 00:07:29.449 align:center line:-2
and maybe act as mediators
in a difficult conversation.

00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:32.953 align:center line:-2
And then, sometimes
it's just having someone

00:07:32.953 --> 00:07:36.832 align:center line:-2
to talk to, to help sort out
how we feel

00:07:36.832 --> 00:07:39.418 align:center line:-2
and to see figure out
what our approach will be.

00:07:39.418 --> 00:07:42.129 align:center line:-2
So, the service centres
are really there to help

00:07:42.129 --> 00:07:43.881 align:center line:-1
the members of the Defence Team,

00:07:43.881 --> 00:07:45.966 align:center line:-1
military and civilian members,

00:07:45.966 --> 00:07:50.137 align:center line:-2
really navigate
these complex issues.

00:07:50.137 --> 00:07:52.097 align:center line:-1
Interesting.

00:07:52.097 --> 00:07:58.020 align:center line:-1
How do you respond respectfully

00:07:58.020 --> 00:08:01.231 align:center line:-1
to emotions without giving

00:08:01.231 --> 00:08:06.445 align:center line:-2
inappropriate behaviours
and attitudes, tacit approval?

00:08:06.445 --> 00:08:08.822 align:center line:-1
Yeah, that's a great question.

00:08:08.822 --> 00:08:12.284 align:center line:-2
I think the key to that is to
address inappropriate behaviours

00:08:12.284 --> 00:08:15.495 align:center line:-2
when they happen
and not let them fester.

00:08:15.495 --> 00:08:19.082 align:center line:-2
I think that in not addressing
things you give key messages

00:08:19.082 --> 00:08:21.418 align:center line:-1
that it's okay to act that

00:08:21.418 --> 00:08:24.296 align:center line:-2
and that you're accepting
the behaviours that are present.

00:08:24.296 --> 00:08:28.300 align:center line:-2
So, addressing them
early is really key for me,

00:08:28.300 --> 00:08:31.553 align:center line:-2
but also knowing
that you can have

00:08:31.553 --> 00:08:33.347 align:center line:-1
any discussion with respect

00:08:33.347 --> 00:08:36.350 align:center line:-2
and in creating that
psychologically safe space

00:08:36.350 --> 00:08:39.353 align:center line:-2
to provide that feedback,
to have those discussions.

00:08:39.353 --> 00:08:41.355 align:center line:-1
And fully understand,

00:08:41.355 --> 00:08:44.107 align:center line:-2
a lot of times people are
acting out in a certain way

00:08:44.107 --> 00:08:46.652 align:center line:-2
and it might have nothing
to do with the workplace.

00:08:46.652 --> 00:08:48.612 align:center line:-2
It might have to do
with their personal life,

00:08:48.612 --> 00:08:50.656 align:center line:-2
it might have to do with
the fact that they had a fight

00:08:50.656 --> 00:08:52.449 align:center line:-1
with their partner.

00:08:52.449 --> 00:08:54.785 align:center line:-2
There's a lot of different
things that can affect that,

00:08:54.785 --> 00:08:56.828 align:center line:-2
so trying to get
to the crux of the issue

00:08:56.828 --> 00:08:59.164 align:center line:-2
as quickly as possible
but not letting

00:08:59.164 --> 00:09:02.084 align:center line:-2
those inappropriate
behaviours continue is key,

00:09:02.084 --> 00:09:04.920 align:center line:-2
really, to maintaining
that healthy workplace.

00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:07.756 align:center line:-1
Melanie, how do you gauge

00:09:07.756 --> 00:09:11.468 align:center line:-1
how to best calibrate

00:09:11.468 --> 00:09:14.221 align:center line:-1
respectful assertiveness

00:09:14.221 --> 00:09:16.682 align:center line:-2
in response
to the inappropriate behaviour?

00:09:16.682 --> 00:09:22.396 align:center line:-1
Yes, so, I'd like to talk here

00:09:22.396 --> 00:09:25.232 align:center line:-2
a little bit about that,
often we mistake

00:09:25.232 --> 00:09:28.986 align:center line:-1
assertiveness as a scary thing.

00:09:28.986 --> 00:09:34.783 align:center line:-2
We sometimes shy away
from saying no to somebody

00:09:34.783 --> 00:09:37.911 align:center line:-2
or saying that something
is wrong because we feel

00:09:37.911 --> 00:09:39.913 align:center line:-1
that we might offend.

00:09:39.913 --> 00:09:41.832 align:center line:-1
But it's really crucial,

00:09:41.832 --> 00:09:44.042 align:center line:-2
especially when we think
about safe,

00:09:44.042 --> 00:09:46.044 align:center line:-1
psychological safe workplaces,

00:09:46.044 --> 00:09:49.756 align:center line:-2
that we are able to have those
conversations where we can say,

00:09:49.756 --> 00:09:52.050 align:center line:-1
what we agreed on,

00:09:52.050 --> 00:09:54.178 align:center line:-2
where we can have
conversations around

00:09:54.178 --> 00:09:55.846 align:center line:-1
what respect means to us,

00:09:55.846 --> 00:09:58.932 align:center line:-1
because being emotional is okay

00:09:58.932 --> 00:10:02.144 align:center line:-2
but not all behaviours attached
to our emotions are okay

00:10:02.144 --> 00:10:04.021 align:center line:-1
in the workplace.

00:10:04.021 --> 00:10:07.608 align:center line:-2
So, it's important to be able
to have those conversations,

00:10:07.608 --> 00:10:10.652 align:center line:-2
that's where assertiveness comes
in, certainly, as a tool.

00:10:10.652 --> 00:10:14.823 align:center line:-2
Assertiveness does not have
to be strict,

00:10:14.823 --> 00:10:18.535 align:center line:-1
does not have to be strong.

00:10:18.535 --> 00:10:22.623 align:center line:-2
Assertiveness can be
very respectful

00:10:22.623 --> 00:10:28.670 align:center line:-2
and by being able
to be respectfully assertive,

00:10:28.670 --> 00:10:31.798 align:center line:-2
we actually create
stronger relationship,

00:10:31.798 --> 00:10:34.259 align:center line:-2
respectful relationship
in the workplace.

00:10:34.259 --> 00:10:36.094 align:center line:-1
It's definitely part of it.

00:10:36.094 --> 00:10:37.971 align:center line:-2
Because, by always just
accommodating,

00:10:37.971 --> 00:10:39.932 align:center line:-1
we are not creating a strong,

00:10:39.932 --> 00:10:42.100 align:center line:-2
professional working
relationship.

00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:47.231 align:center line:-2
We have to be able to accept
each other's differences,

00:10:47.231 --> 00:10:50.359 align:center line:-1
emotions,

00:10:50.359 --> 00:10:53.195 align:center line:-1
how we work through issues,

00:10:53.195 --> 00:10:56.406 align:center line:-2
and the only way to do
that respectfully is

00:10:56.406 --> 00:10:59.034 align:center line:-2
when we are able to talk
about boundaries

00:10:59.034 --> 00:11:01.203 align:center line:-1
with each other as well.

00:11:01.203 --> 00:11:04.498 align:center line:-2
Yeah, no, I was just
going to add,

00:11:04.498 --> 00:11:06.834 align:center line:-2
I think Melanie makes
a really great point.

00:11:06.834 --> 00:11:09.586 align:center line:-2
And I think that
an understanding,

00:11:09.586 --> 00:11:11.797 align:center line:-2
a lot of conflicts are based
in perception.

00:11:11.797 --> 00:11:13.674 align:center line:-1
Anyways, that's my experience.

00:11:13.674 --> 00:11:15.717 align:center line:-2
So, understanding the other
person's perception,

00:11:15.717 --> 00:11:17.553 align:center line:-2
understanding
where they're coming from

00:11:17.553 --> 00:11:22.140 align:center line:-2
and how they viewed a certain
circumstance or situation,

00:11:22.140 --> 00:11:25.310 align:center line:-2
that may have no relevance
to the way

00:11:25.310 --> 00:11:27.187 align:center line:-2
that you experienced it
or viewed it

00:11:27.187 --> 00:11:28.939 align:center line:-2
and that's based
on many different things.

00:11:28.939 --> 00:11:32.067 align:center line:-2
Your lived experience,
your personal history,

00:11:32.067 --> 00:11:34.361 align:center line:-2
how you were raised,
all those kinds of things

00:11:34.361 --> 00:11:35.904 align:center line:-1
factor into the workplace.

00:11:35.904 --> 00:11:37.739 align:center line:-2
So, I think
it's really important

00:11:37.739 --> 00:11:40.075 align:center line:-2
that we look at perception
and we understand perception,

00:11:40.075 --> 00:11:42.369 align:center line:-2
and sometimes just taking
the time to understand

00:11:42.369 --> 00:11:45.664 align:center line:-2
the other person's point
of view and how they've lived

00:11:45.664 --> 00:11:47.791 align:center line:-2
a certain circumstance
or situation

00:11:47.791 --> 00:11:50.878 align:center line:-2
will help us gain
a better understanding,

00:11:50.878 --> 00:11:54.965 align:center line:-2
but also eliminate issues
that may be present

00:11:54.965 --> 00:11:59.178 align:center line:-2
or let them grow into something
that it didn't need to be.

00:11:59.178 --> 00:12:03.724 align:center line:-1
How would you recommend

00:12:03.724 --> 00:12:07.102 align:center line:-2
that people end this type
of conversation?

00:12:07.102 --> 00:12:10.522 align:center line:-2
Because it can be a bit awkward,
inconvenient,

00:12:10.522 --> 00:12:12.399 align:center line:-1
but I imagine that in the end

00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:18.906 align:center line:-2
we're all relieved and just want
to leave and get back to work.

00:12:18.906 --> 00:12:22.409 align:center line:-2
But are there proper
procedures to follow?

00:12:22.409 --> 00:12:24.453 align:center line:-1
Yes, absolutely.

00:12:24.453 --> 00:12:28.957 align:center line:-2
I find that the key is really
to ensure understanding.

00:12:28.957 --> 00:12:32.920 align:center line:-2
An understanding of what has
been discussed, on both sides.

00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:36.340 align:center line:-2
So, paraphrase and say:
"This is how..." You know...

00:12:36.340 --> 00:12:38.759 align:center line:-2
"This is what I understood
from our meeting today.

00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:41.887 align:center line:-2
Did I understand
how you saw that correctly?"

00:12:41.887 --> 00:12:47.935 align:center line:-2
People want to be understood.
They want to be seen and heard.

00:12:47.935 --> 00:12:49.728 align:center line:-2
So, I think that
it's really important

00:12:49.728 --> 00:12:51.355 align:center line:-1
to summarize the conversation,

00:12:51.355 --> 00:12:53.815 align:center line:-1
not just close the door and run.

00:12:53.815 --> 00:12:56.193 align:center line:-2
So, to recap,
have the conversation and say:

00:12:56.193 --> 00:12:58.070 align:center line:-1
"This is what I heard today.

00:12:58.070 --> 00:13:00.239 align:center line:-2
"Does that reflect
how you're feeling?

00:13:00.239 --> 00:13:02.574 align:center line:-2
Does this reflect
your perception of things?"

00:13:02.574 --> 00:13:05.577 align:center line:-2
Actually ending the conversation
like that will ensure

00:13:05.577 --> 00:13:09.081 align:center line:-1
that people feel...

00:13:09.081 --> 00:13:13.168 align:center line:-2
will increase the chances that
people feel seen and heard.

00:13:13.168 --> 00:13:15.420 align:center line:-2
And I think that yes,
it's still a good practice.

00:13:15.420 --> 00:13:17.798 align:center line:-2
And maybe even if you
don't feel comfortable

00:13:17.798 --> 00:13:20.008 align:center line:-2
at that time
because your emotions may be

00:13:20.008 --> 00:13:22.052 align:center line:-1
running a bit high

00:13:22.052 --> 00:13:23.846 align:center line:-2
or you know that people
are uncomfortable,

00:13:23.846 --> 00:13:26.390 align:center line:-2
it's okay to do
a little summary by email.

00:13:26.390 --> 00:13:29.351 align:center line:-2
Say, you know: "Thank you.
We spoke to each other today.

00:13:29.351 --> 00:13:32.145 align:center line:-2
"This is what I understood
from our conversation.

00:13:32.145 --> 00:13:34.106 align:center line:-1
Is that how you saw it?"

00:13:34.106 --> 00:13:35.941 align:center line:-2
Either way,
I think it's appropriate.

00:13:35.941 --> 00:13:38.402 align:center line:-2
Melanie, I don't know if you had
some thing else to add?

00:13:38.402 --> 00:13:40.821 align:center line:-2
Yes, absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.

00:13:40.821 --> 00:13:43.240 align:center line:-1
And it's also okay,

00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.159 align:center line:-2
if for whatever reason a
conversation is not going well,

00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:49.454 align:center line:-2
if emotions are high,
because you know,

00:13:49.454 --> 00:13:52.207 align:center line:-2
there can be
very difficult issues.

00:13:52.207 --> 00:13:55.294 align:center line:-2
You don't need to force
the conversation either.

00:13:55.294 --> 00:13:57.171 align:center line:-1
Maybe it's not the right moment,

00:13:57.171 --> 00:13:59.006 align:center line:-2
maybe the person is having
a really bad day,

00:13:59.006 --> 00:14:01.550 align:center line:-2
maybe you were having
a really bad day, right?

00:14:01.550 --> 00:14:04.678 align:center line:-2
So, try to end it
then on a positive note,

00:14:04.678 --> 00:14:06.972 align:center line:-2
just acknowledge
the emotions in room.

00:14:06.972 --> 00:14:10.225 align:center line:-2
Just say, this is not really
going well for both of us,

00:14:10.225 --> 00:14:12.352 align:center line:-1
maybe we convene another day.

00:14:12.352 --> 00:14:13.979 align:center line:-1
You know and leave it at that.

00:14:13.979 --> 00:14:16.481 align:center line:-2
It doesn't need to be resolved
all at once,

00:14:16.481 --> 00:14:20.444 align:center line:-2
and then you can schedule
a follow-up as well.

00:14:20.444 --> 00:14:22.571 align:center line:-2
But I think
that's really important,

00:14:22.571 --> 00:14:24.573 align:center line:-1
not trying to force it.

00:14:24.573 --> 00:14:26.867 align:center line:-2
And every conversation is
so different

00:14:26.867 --> 00:14:28.744 align:center line:-1
and situational, right?

00:14:28.744 --> 00:14:31.371 align:center line:-2
So, there is never
a one fix all.

00:14:31.371 --> 00:14:33.624 align:center line:-2
So, stay adaptable,
stay flexible,

00:14:33.624 --> 00:14:35.292 align:center line:-1
and I think what's key

00:14:35.292 --> 00:14:38.420 align:center line:-2
to a difficult conversation
is always like, prepare.

00:14:38.420 --> 00:14:40.589 align:center line:-2
Know yourself,
know your triggers,

00:14:40.589 --> 00:14:43.509 align:center line:-1
think about it beforehand.

00:14:43.509 --> 00:14:48.013 align:center line:-2
Well, thank you,
Melanie and Geneviève.

00:14:48.013 --> 00:14:51.767 align:center line:-2
I feel that we've touched
a lot of wave tops

00:14:51.767 --> 00:14:54.102 align:center line:-1
on what's a very deep subject

00:14:54.102 --> 00:14:57.648 align:center line:-2
and your insights as subject
matter experts are

00:14:57.648 --> 00:15:01.485 align:center line:-2
really valuable for the Defence
Team and really, frankly,

00:15:01.485 --> 00:15:04.613 align:center line:-2
anyone who wants to improve
their relationships

00:15:04.613 --> 00:15:06.990 align:center line:-2
with other people
that they interact with

00:15:06.990 --> 00:15:09.993 align:center line:-2
in the workplace
or at home or anywhere.

00:15:09.993 --> 00:15:12.829 align:center line:-1
I was just wondering

00:15:12.829 --> 00:15:16.416 align:center line:-2
if there are any materials that
you might recommend to anyone

00:15:16.416 --> 00:15:19.878 align:center line:-2
who's interested in developing
their skills further

00:15:19.878 --> 00:15:23.882 align:center line:-2
beyond what they've learned
listening to you at this time?

00:15:23.882 --> 00:15:27.010 align:center line:-2
There is a great website
that I would recommend.

00:15:27.010 --> 00:15:29.930 align:center line:-2
So, if you google
"Crucial Skills",

00:15:29.930 --> 00:15:32.474 align:center line:-2
you can subscribe
to the newsletter.

00:15:32.474 --> 00:15:35.352 align:center line:-2
It's the same people who wrote
"Difficult Conversations".

00:15:35.352 --> 00:15:40.315 align:center line:-2
They give really good tips
and tricks and skills

00:15:40.315 --> 00:15:41.900 align:center line:-1
in how to handle

00:15:41.900 --> 00:15:44.111 align:center line:-2
all kind of potentially
difficult conversations.

00:15:44.111 --> 00:15:46.029 align:center line:-1
Great, Thank you. Geneviève.

00:15:46.029 --> 00:15:49.700 align:center line:-2
Again, I would refer people
for one-on-one help

00:15:49.700 --> 00:15:52.119 align:center line:-2
to the Complaints and Conflict
Management Services Centres

00:15:52.119 --> 00:15:54.580 align:center line:-2
across Canada.
What I would recommend

00:15:54.580 --> 00:15:56.498 align:center line:-1
from reading material would be,

00:15:56.498 --> 00:15:59.209 align:center line:-2
"Difficult Conversations: How
to Discuss What Matters Most",

00:15:59.209 --> 00:16:03.172 align:center line:-2
and the authors for that book
are Stone, Patton, and Heen.

00:16:03.172 --> 00:16:07.509 align:center line:-2
And then there's also two,
kind of "incontournables"

00:16:07.509 --> 00:16:09.636 align:center line:-1
if we want to call them, books.

00:16:09.636 --> 00:16:12.931 align:center line:-2
"Getting Past No"
and "Getting to Yes",

00:16:12.931 --> 00:16:15.976 align:center line:-2
by Fisher and Ury,
that I would really recommend

00:16:15.976 --> 00:16:18.145 align:center line:-2
to really create some
of that baseline knowledge

00:16:18.145 --> 00:16:19.938 align:center line:-1
around how to have

00:16:19.938 --> 00:16:22.524 align:center line:-2
very difficult conversations
for sure.

00:16:22.524 --> 00:16:25.736 align:center line:-2
We hope that this discussion
has given you

00:16:25.736 --> 00:16:29.072 align:center line:-2
a few practical ideas
that you can use at work

00:16:29.072 --> 00:16:31.283 align:center line:-1
to make it a healthier place.

00:16:31.283 --> 00:16:33.327 align:center line:-2
For members
of the Defence Team,

00:16:33.327 --> 00:16:36.538 align:center line:-2
remember that Conflict Solutions
and Services has

00:16:36.538 --> 00:16:39.291 align:center line:-2
16 Conflict and Complaints
Management Services Centres

00:16:39.291 --> 00:16:41.376 align:center line:-1
across Canada.

00:16:41.376 --> 00:16:43.754 align:center line:-1
Thank you, merci, miigwech.