-Well, I am thrilled to talk about our next activity.
We are having our first panel discussion.
The title of the panel discussion
is The Accessible Canada Act
Progress to Date and Moving towards 2040.
I am pleased to introduce our moderator, Bill Adair,
the executive director of Spinal Cord Injury Canada.
Spinal Cord Injury Canada assists people
with spinal cord injuries and other physical disabilities
in achieving independence, self-reliance,
and full community participation.
Bill has extensive professional community experience
in the areas of health care and disability.
He is a founding member
of the Canadian Disability Policy Alliance,
the Ontario Neurotrauma Foundation,
and the Dorothy Ley Hospice.
He has recently lent his leadership and his expertise
to the government of Canada
through their working group on alternate format materials
and the parliamentary recent advisory panel.
Bill Adair is also a member of Minister Khera's
Disability Advisory Group
and also a member of the Board of Directors
at Accessibility Standards Canada.
Before passing the Bill to mic,
just a little reminder to our audience,
the panelists will be answering to some questions
from the audience,
but that will be at the end of the panel discussion.
So, if you have any questions
related to the topic of the discussion,
please type them in the Q&A.
Bill, the floor is yours now.
-Thank you so much, Bean and Varda.
Thank you also for leading us into this event.
I am Bill Adair,
and I want to welcome all of you today
who are joining us.
As Bean mentioned,
I'm the executive director of Spinal Cord Injury Canada.
I also work for Accessibrand, a startup company
that works only with professionals
with disabilities who provide services
in the design, marketing, and communications field.
I'm a member of the Board of Directors
of Accessibility Standards Canada
and on Minister Khera's advisory group.
And I'm very happy to be here today
to moderate this panel.
I am a white male.
I have on a light blue shirt
and a navy blue jacket with brown glasses,
and I have lived experience with disability.
In 2019, Canada took a bold step forward
to becoming barrier-free by January 1, 2040.
The Accessible Canada Act commits to identifying,
removing, and preventing barriers
in federal jurisdiction.
People in the disability community
were partners in creating the Accessible Canada Act.
This law calls for a revolution in our culture.
It's about creating a society that embraces
the involvement of people in all communities
across our great nation,
and obviously that includes people with disabilities.
We always said the real work would start
after the law came into force.
We're now five years into the journey together,
and we all must continue to drive change
that makes access and inclusion a reality
for people with disabilities in Canada.
As you may know, under the Accessible Canada Act,
federally regulated entities must create accessibility plans.
We can celebrate that Canada's private sector has --
public service sector has a 99% compliance rate
with developing accessibility plans.
And they have an 87% rate
of posting progress reports on time.
A bit of work to do there,
but thank you to all the public service people
who have been working hard on this.
It's amazing.
Many champions in the public service are doing great work.
Their success is inspiring others
who are serious about removing barriers
and contributing to the culture shift.
However, other larger federally regulated entities
have a compliance rate of approximately 41%
in posting accessibility plans.
Honestly, this rate is not okay.
We need to get the other 60%
to be serious about removing barriers.
We worked hard to get the Accessible Canada Act.
Its principles need to be respected.
When all of us can fully participate,
our lives, our economy, and our society
are richer as a result.
So, as I'm about to welcome the panelists today,
on this panel, we hear from four prominent leaders
who are driving change to make Canada barrier-free
by January 1, 2040.
As you listen to each speaker,
I invite you to think about what we have accomplished,
how much is left to do,
and how you can drive change in your own backyard.
Canada's chief accessibility officer
recently commented on the work ahead
to build air travel -- to make air travel fully accessible.
Stephanie Cadieux said, "Over the past six months,
I have seen this issue catch fire
in a way I don't think it ever has before.
In that time, I've seen some progress, but not enough.
In some areas, Canada is leading the way,
and we should be proud of that.
But we should be much further ahead."
I believe this statement is true about a lot of issues.
Let's focus and work together
and get much farther ahead in the next years to come.
I hope you all enjoy the panel,
and I am delighted now to invite each of the panelists
to introduce themselves.
And after that, we will go through a series of questions.
So, Louis, uh, please jump in and introduce yourself.
-I believe you can hear me now.
My name is Louis Belleau.
First of all, I'd like to thank you
for inviting me to this conference.
I am a person -- a Deaf person.
I'm wearing a black shirt.
I have a beard that's beginning --
that is becoming a little bit gray.
And I've got a blue screen behind me
so you can see me when I'm doing my sign language.
-Thank you, Louis. And over to you, Jen.
-Hi, I'm Jennifer Cowan.
I'm the director of enterprise accessibility for Scotiabank.
My pronouns are she and her.
I have brown hair, and today I'm wearing
a white top and black glasses.
I've worked in the accessibility space for a number of years,
mostly in the municipal sector.
And during that time,
my work centered around ensuring compliance
with Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act, the AODA,
community outreach, and working
with Municipal Accessibility Advisory committees.
And since joining Scotiabank,
I've been fortunate enough to work with groups
who focus on digital accessibility --
our physical spaces, as well as the employee experience.
-Thank you so much, Jen.
Max.
Max. -Yeah.
Good morning, everybody. -Off you go.
-Thank you. Thank you.
So, my name is Max Guénette.
I'm the assistant commissioner
of the Service Innovation and Integration branch
here at the Canada Revenue Agency.
Also the chief service officer for the agency.
And one of my roles in this capacity
is to be the executive sponsor for accessibility,
here at the agency.
I'm thrilled to be part of the panel this morning
and very grateful for the invitation.
I'm not someone with direct experience
with disability.
You know, I don't have a lived experience in this space,
but I do care for an elderly parent
that has severe mobility issues.
And so, I'm very keenly interested in this topic.
Um, I'm a white male in my early 50s.
If I had a beard, it would also be white,
but I'm clean-shaven this morning.
And I'm coming to you from my office
here at the ByWard market.
Thanks.
-Thank you so much, Max, for joining us.
Rabia, thank you for joining us.
-Thank you. My name is Rabia Khedr.
I'm the national director of Disability Without Poverty
and the CEO of DEEN Support Services,
as well as a founder
of the Race and Disability Canada Initiative.
I am talking to you from Ottawa,
but live traditionally on the territories
of the Mississaugas of the New Credit in Mississauga, Ontario.
I describe myself as a hyphen with many hijabs
because I am wearing a hijab,
which happens to be black today.
I am a Muslim, Punjabi, Pakistani, Canadian woman,
wife, mother, sibling of individuals with disabilities,
systems disruptor, social entrepreneur, yada yada yada.
And I happen to have a disability.
I did formerly serve
on the Board of Accessibility Standards Canada
and currently continue to sit
on the Minister's Disability Advisory Group.
-Thank you so much, Rabia,
and thank you all for being with us today.
I know everyone attending
is looking forward to your comments.
So, we're going to move into the question --
the first series of questions,
and I will ask each panelist a tailored questions,
and each panelist will have six minutes to respond.
So, here we go. This is the fun part.
Louis.
The Canadian Association of the Deaf
is the oldest national consumer organization
of, by, and for Deaf people in Canada
for having its interests represented at a national level.
How has the coming into force of the Accessible Canada Act
facilitated initiatives that your organization advances,
and what else needs to be done
to implement the Accessible Canada Act?
Six minutes. Louis.
-Thank you.
I'm on the board of directors
of the Canadian Deaf Association.
I represent the Francophone section.
It's the largest one of the Deaf community in Canada.
We have representatives in each province
and associations that are affiliated
to the Canada Association for the Deaf.
So, our role is to promote the rights of the Deaf persons
who are hard of hearing,
the indigenous people who are hard of hearing,
and to work on accessibility.
The Association of the Deaf was founded in 1940.
So, in 2040...
we will be celebrating our 100th anniversary.
So, it corresponds well to the date for this act.
So, in 2009, there was the law
and the Canada Accessibility Act that was tabled.
And finally, we managed to integrate this
in the law at the national level.
Accessibility there has seen a lot of progress,
but there's still things that we have to fight for.
For example...
...in terms of progress,
interpretation services at Hydro Canada.
Broadcasting during the federal elections as well.
There's been a lot of progress
and a lot of interpretation available,
which is very good.
In terms of transportation,
of airplane and transportation,
there's still some things lacking.
We should have more services
when we're sitting down at the airport waiting.
We don't hear what's going on.
And for the Deaf, there are no services,
so we have to work on that.
That's one of the roles
that our Association for the Deaf in Canada is working on,
to make air transport more accessible.
There are many things that I could talk about.
Since the Accessibility Act --
Accessibility Canada Act was passed,
it's going to help us, for sure.
It's a very positive step for us.
I'm looking at my notes. Just a moment.
Sorry about that.
I'm mixing things up here a bit.
The questions that I'm supposed to answer today.
So, I'm just checking my notes.
Yeah, so, for the moment,
that's what I will say for now.
-Thank you, Louis.
You have a couple of minutes left,
and I want to ask a question.
For you and Deaf people across the country,
how important is it that the Accessible Canada Act
included the requirement of ASL and LSQ?
And to what extent do you see
that federally regulated entities are complying
with this requirement?
And do we need more work in this area?
Thank you.
-Good question.
Yes.
When we talk about LSQ, American Sign Language,
I think for myself,
it should be absolutely essential.
You can speak in French or in English.
I speak with my hands in sign language.
So in ASL, we talk American Sign Language.
And for the anglophones, that's fine.
So, LSQ...
You know, we need these languages.
And there's a third thing
is the indigenous sign language, as well.
We have to develop that aspect as well
so that the indigenous people will preserve their culture.
That's one thing.
In terms of your question at the federal level,
in terms of civil servants,
services that we have at the federal level,
I can't really respond.
But what I'm seeing is that there are more --
there is more interpretation services,
and we're hiring more Deaf people.
But I don't have figures or statistics about that.
But it seems to me that things are getting better.
Now, parallel to that, in terms of services,
I would say that, yes, but Service Canada,
I went in there and I noticed that...
there was interpretation services offered.
And I said, "Yes, I need that."
So, I asked an employee. They took care of that.
They made an appointment with an interpreter,
and with an iPad, I had access to an interpreter
to be able to communicate with Service Canada.
And I --
and things were much more fluid.
But it's not all the agencies that offer that.
But I think things are getting better.
For example, at the airports is still not that accessible.
We have to improve that
because we're talking about Canada.
They're private corporations and very nice policies.
But in fact, you understand it's not obvious.
In prison, there's no interpretation services.
The Deaf people are very isolated in places like that.
So, these are things to improve on.
-Thank you very much, Louis,
for your comments on that last question
and your insights previously.
And I am now going to turn to you, Jen,
and our friends at Scotiabank.
I understand that Scotiabank is committed
to meeting the needs of people with disabilities
by consistently working to prevent
and remove barriers to accessibility
and meeting the requirements for accessibility.
And humans of Scotiabank we hear that,
"Accessibility really is about creating spaces
that everyone is welcome into,
making sure that you are thinking about
the broadest audience possible."
How have things changed at Scotiabank
as a result of the Accessible Canada Act,
and what are the next steps on Scotiabank's
accessibility journey to removing all barriers?
-Thanks, Bill.
Well, Scotiabank has been dedicated
to improving accessibility for quite some time now.
And prior to the Accessible Canada Act,
our focus was predominantly on digital accessibility
and ensuring that people with disabilities
could conduct their banking seamlessly online
or via our mobile app.
But with the implementation of the Accessible Canada Act,
we have started to formalize an enterprise accessibility program
that allows us to gain deeper insights into our clients wants
and most importantly, their needs.
And as a result of these deeper insights,
we've initiated a few changes
which I'm happy to share with you today.
So, first, we've been looking at how we can
provide banking documents in alternate formats
to clients with disabilities.
And it was through feedback that we learned
that not everyone could easily access
or use our banking documents and statements.
So, over the past year,
we developed a new internal system
that streamlines this process for clients.
We also have provided training to staff
on how to use it.
So, with this new system, clients have the option
to request alternate formats, bank statements,
as well as other communications, like terms and conditions,
product brochures, and even fee-change notices.
Clients can make this request in person at a branch
or by calling our contact center,
and we offer grade-one and grade-two Braille,
as well as large-print and accessible PDF.
We also have another initiative
that involves our collaboration with the Rick Hansen Foundation.
And they will be conducting facility accessibility audits
at five of our branch and five office locations.
And so these audits will encompass
the Rick Hansen Foundation
accessibility certification rating,
along with tailored recommendations
for improvements in those spaces.
And by undergoing these audits,
our goal is really to establish
a foundational level of accessibility
in our physical spaces that are used
both by clients and employees
and giving us the ability to improve
our branches and office spaces across Canada.
Another initiative that we take pride in
is our efforts in the procurement sector.
So, in 2023,
we joined other leading companies
who are committed to prioritizing accessibility
in the procurement process.
And we signed the Procure Access statement.
So, this is facilitated by Disability:IN,
and Procure Access is a business-to-business initiative
that recognizes the importance of buying
and selling technology
that's accessible to people with disabilities.
And what this means is that we're committed to working
to procure digital products and services
that are accessible to both our clients and employees
with disabilities.
As previously mentioned,
our robust digital accessibility initiative continues to evolve.
In anticipation of the Accessible Canada Act standards,
we've broadened our focus and heightened our efforts
by reviewing our procedures, tools, and methodologies
to make sure that websites
and mobile applications are crafted in a manner
that serves the needs of people with disabilities,
and this expanded approach is expected
to produce improved outcomes
and thus enhancing the overall user experience.
We have also initiated close collaboration
with our partners responsible for senior clients.
And through this collaboration, our goal is
to understand the needs of our seniors --
senior clients with disabilities
and ensure that they receive the necessary information
and guidance needed to manage their finances independently.
So, as we all know, when we improve our services
from an accessibility perspective,
we enhance the services for everyone.
And lastly, you mentioned about the accessibility plans
in the private sector.
I'd like to highlight that our 2024
Accessible Canada Act progress report
will be scheduled to be published
in just a little over a week
and contains information about our commitments,
as well as the progress we've been making
over the last year at Scotiabank.
-Thank you, Jen.
And you haven't used all your time,
so I'm going to follow up with another question.
First, to say thank you for the work
that you're doing at Scotiabank to embrace access and inclusion
and to create that culture shift within your own organization.
I'm wondering about how --
one of the requirements in developing a plan
and evaluating progress,
you're required to involve people with disabilities.
So, a range of different kinds of disabilities,
of course, is necessary.
How do you do that?
-Yeah, so, we have some processes in place
that allow us to reach out to clients and employees
with disabilities
and get feedback on the commitments made
in our accessibility plan,
as well as how we are addressing barriers
that those folks might encounter while banking with us.
We do have a few different processes in place
where we are doing some outreach outside of the bank
as well as inside the bank to our own employees.
-Thank you for that.
And I know some private sector companies are creating,
accessibility advisory panels made up of --
including people with a broad range of disabilities
to provide focused advice
on the development of the plans
and helping to evaluate progress.
So, one more question, because we have
another minute and a half for you.
And that is
there are some underlying accessibility issues
that aren't as evident
that the physical access is super important.
So, right, for that work.
What about something like plain language
to make sure that the services
and the engagement with everybody
at all levels of communication
can access that kind of information?
Or do you have initiative around that?
-We do.
We actually have a plain language council
at the bank, who sort of spearheads
and drives the plain language initiative.
We also have a really great group
that works on our scotiabank.com website.
And they are always trying to encourage folks
to write in plain language.
And they themselves are writing in plain language.
So, there are a few initiatives underway,
and looking forward to those standards
from the federal government
so that we can look at how we might formalize that
within the bank,
because it is about financial literacy
and making sure that everybody has an understanding
of what it is that they are signing up for
or what those terms and conditions really mean.
-Thanks so much, Jen.
And we'll move on now to Max.
From our friends at CRA.
Max, over to you.
-Uh, thanks.
Did you have a question you wanted to pose to me?
-I do have a question. So, here's the question.
Everybody in Canada is filing taxes
or receiving benefits.
We must interact with the CRA,
meaning that the CRA has a large and diverse client base.
I understand that the CRA
follows a people-first philosophy,
which puts people -- clients and employees --
at the center of everything that CRA does.
This aligns with the principle in the disability community,
and our government, of nothing without us.
What are some of the concrete results
of the implementation of the Accessible Canada Act
for your clients of your organization --
that's all of us in Canada -- and for your employees?
Okay, now over to you.
-Alright, thanks, Bill, for the question.
Yeah, I mean, one of my roles, as I mentioned,
is that of chief service officer for the agency.
And part of that role includes
promoting a seamless user experience
for the clients that interact with the Canada Revenue Agency.
And as you mentioned, that's virtually every one of us.
At last count -- filing season just ended,
and I think we've received almost 30 million tax returns.
So, we're literally, you know, counting interactions
in the tens of millions here at the agency.
And so, to that end, as you mentioned,
we've adopted --
and it's been several years now.
We launched this just prior to the pandemic, in 2019,
what we call our people-first philosophy.
And the goal of that is to transform --
or, you know, was and continues to be
to transform the agency into a trusted, helpful, fair,
and people-centric organization.
So, really the core of that people-first principle
for me is that notion of user-centricity.
And so, that principle guides our approach,
you know, on all things,
when it comes to program design and service delivery,
but it's particularly well aligned to our approach
when it comes to identifying, removing,
and preventing barriers for persons with disabilities.
We do recognize, of course,
that to uphold our organization's values
and promote that seamless client service approach
that is inclusive to all,
we have to ensure that our workplaces,
our programs, and services are fully accessible.
And I'm happy to report that, you know,
CRA is among the federally regulated entities
who have published an accessibility plan
and a progress report.
But, you know, I do want to acknowledge
that a lot more work remains to be done for us.
So, in order to be truly user-centric,
we know that we need to understand the needs
and the expectations and lived experiences
of persons with disabilities,
as well as how they shape their interactions with us,
how those experiences shape their interactions with us.
Our research has shown us that the biggest
or one of the biggest impacts
that we can make to improve our client service
is to incorporate empathy in our work.
And whether that's, you know, working directly with taxpayers
or as you mentioned, you know, internally,
amongst employees, with colleagues.
And as you mentioned in your question,
that "nothing without us" principle
really reinforces all of this
by stressing the need to consult our, you know,
persons with disabilities.
And that's in line with our approach
to consult the user base
when we're developing or providing input
to those that develop laws
or when we're developing policies,
designing programs, you know,
that have an impact on persons with disabilities.
So, involving them from the start
ensures that accessibility is top of mind
at every step of the process.
And so, that principle,
that "nothing without us" principle
is really at the heart of our first accessibility plan.
We have consulted persons with disabilities
and nonprofit organizations
who support persons with disabilities
or who interact with us on their behalf
to identify the barriers and action items.
We published our plan initially in December of 2022,
and it sets out a commitment for us to address
23 accessibility barriers through 42 actions,
and it's a three-year plan
that will take us to December of 2025.
So, we're in the second year of that plan.
And as we work to implement the action items,
we're also working to shift mindsets
and build an accessibility-forward culture
here at the agency.
And to help us with that,
we do want to fully understand
where the barriers are and how to start embedding
an accessible-by-default approach
in all of our processes and decisions.
And having that systematic approach, hopefully,
is going to help ensure that accessibility is
at the start and end of everything
that we want to accomplish.
So, in terms of gains so far,
you know, we've made some improvements
to the way the CRA does business.
So, I'll give you a few examples.
So, in line with the Act, of course,
we've implemented an accessibility feedback mechanism
that allows anyone to submit a complaint
or a suggestion or occasionally a compliment --
yeah, we do get some of those -- I know it's it's shocking --
about our programs and services.
And so, that's available via the Canada.ca website,
and someone submitting feedback
can do so in seven different ways.
And we do strive to respond quickly.
Another example -- and I sort of alluded to this --
we do a round of external consultations
with persons with disabilities each year,
including the organizations that represent them.
And so, that allows us to take the pulse
on the progress that we're making.
And we're currently setting up for this year's
external consultation.
To make accessing CRA online accounts easier,
we also improve the multi-factor authentication enrollment
to reduce account lockouts,
which is a big source of frustration for all users,
but particularly with persons with disabilities.
And linked to that,
the CRA sign-in services now gives the user
the option to see their password.
You get that little eyeball
when you're entering your passwords,
which we didn't have before.
And that allows users to correct any errors
before attempting to sign in.
Seems like a small thing, but it was a big pain point
in the consultations that we've done.
Another significant advancement for our clientele is
some of the changes that we've made recently
to the disability tax credit application process.
So, to help make it faster and easier
for persons with disabilities
and for their medical practitioners
to complete the DTC form or application form online.
So, applicants can complete their section,
they receive a reference number
to give their medical practitioner.
And then the medical practitioner can use that
to complete their section online.
The applicant's portion of the form
is pre-populated with information
that we have on file,
and so, they're only required to verify the information
and update any missing or wrong information.
And we've heard that that was a welcome development.
That digital form was designed to include clear instructions
for medical practitioners, drop-down menus,
allowing only the required sections to be filled out.
And when completing the DTC online,
there's no longer a requirement to print and mail forms to us,
which was a pain for everyone involved.
And so, the form is securely sent directly for assessment.
It avoids delays that can occur
when we're sending things through the mail.
So, these improvements have helped, you know,
us to ensure that the applications
are assessed consistently, efficiently,
with less follow-up required
after we receive the application.
And for fiscal year '23-'24,
we received about -- over 5,000 responses
to a survey that we've done following those changes.
And 71% of respondents are satisfied
with the DTC program overall.
So, not a bad number, but certainly room for improvement.
And we'll continue to look into that.
One last example in terms of externally --
and I'm just doing a check on time here --
is we've implemented --
we've rolled out the use of video relay services
when interacting with our clients.
So, uh, ahead of this year's filing season,
we launched a direct line to our individual tax inquiry center
for users of video relay service, or VRS for short.
In other words, clients who are part of the Deaf
or hard of hearing community
and use sign language to communicate.
So, the phone line enables clients to contact
the CRA tier-two agent directly.
The agent is, you know, already aware
when the call comes in that they're being contacted by VRS,
and that minimizes the barriers that previously existed
when, you know, a client who is
part of the hard of hearing community
would reach just a regular call center agent
and have to jump through hoops
before they got to someone who could help them.
Just doing a quick time check, Bill.
If you give me another 30 seconds,
I could talk to you a bit
about some of the internal stuff that we've done.
So, that was kind of -- -30 seconds.
-...some of the -- perfect.
So, that was some of the stuff that we've done
for our clientele externally.
Internally, when it comes to the the accessibility culture
that we're trying to impart here at the agency,
we have done and continue to do a number of things.
We host accessibility awareness events
for employees, managers, and executives
to bring up their level of awareness
and to destigmatize perceptions.
Varda talked about stigmatization
in her opening remarks,
and that really resonated with me.
And we're finding more and more people are, you know,
coming out of these events
are willing to identify themselves.
And that's helping kind of up our game.
We've designated accessibility
as a learning priority for the agency.
We're making tools and resources
readily available for employees.
And one really cool initiative --
when I chatted with --
we have a persons with disabilities network internally
that I interact with from time to time,
and they mentioned that they've put in place in Newfoundland
an accessibility ambassador initiative.
And so, that's a group of people
that any manager or employee or executive
that's got questions on how to create
an accessible workspace and workplace for employees
can reach into this network of ambassadors
who can help them navigate the processes
internally that we have.
So, um, I'll stop it there, but thanks for the question.
-Thank you. Max. Uh, thank you.
And thank you as well as the others
for including people with disabilities.
So, we're going on to Rabia now,
who is, as you mentioned, Rabia, you're the national director
of Disability Without Poverty
and the chief executive officer
of the Disability Employment Equality Network, or DEEN.
So, Rabia, is your dedicated efforts
on ensuring that intersectionality
is at the thrust of disability inclusion.
This is a truly commendable area of work
and important area of work.
DEEN has a mission to advance community inclusion
by offering culturally and spiritually relevant services
for families and individuals living with disabilities.
And Disability Without Poverty's mission is to ensure
persons with disabilities
from various communities are prosperous
and can participate in every aspect of society.
So, Rabia, in your view, what role, if any,
has the coming into force of the Accessible Canada Act in 2019
played in advancing the work of your efforts,
in particular as they relate to intersectionality?
Over to you. -Well, the legislation itself
coming into force, you know,
certainly triggered the establishment
of a system to build standards.
Bill, that's where you and I met,
was Accessibility Standards Canada.
And, you know, with our involvement
as individuals around the table,
we had opportunity to give input
into some of the language that was reflected
in the strategic plan and priorities
around developing those standards.
And that has allowed us to have discussion
with the system around intersectionality,
around race and other identity markers
that intersect with disability
to make sure that we don't
just look at a person with a disability
as a disabled person, singular,
that the focus isn't just on disability,
but it's actually more holistic.
So, because there is that opportunity to dialogue,
to converse, to engage within that national space
because of the legislation,
that has given an opportunity to shape some of the language
and hence that has trickled into opportunities
that we've been able to access to do work in this area.
So, historically, the work around disability
has been strictly focused on the disability.
So, not on people's holistic lived experience
of who they are as a human being.
So, as you know from my introduction,
I introduced all those aspects of me
that make me a whole person.
And disability is one aspect,
but I kind of tag it on at the end
because I want people to know exactly who I am.
And, you know, therefore accommodation for me,
accessibility for me is not just limited
to accessibility based on the fact that I'm blind.
Accessibility for me,
barriers that I face in my participation
involve barriers that my skin color poses,
that my hijab poses,
that assumptions and presumptions pose
because of how I present myself as a whole human being.
Sighted people visually judge.
And there are still stereotypes, racism, discrimination,
bias, prejudice, and ableism in our society,
all encompassing the lived realities that we face
when trying to fully participate.
So, I think the Accessible Canada Act
has given that opportunity to talk about intersectionality
and has presented that opportunity to raise awareness
and also to bring people into the conversation.
Kudos to the organizers of CCDI,
having hosts that are racialized.
I am very impressed that we have,
you know, a woman who's Black
and a woman who's South Asian with a disability
emceeing this Congress this year.
Historically, we have been absent.
The disability rights movement has been very white middle-class
and hasn't represented the lived realities
of racialized people, newcomers, immigrants,
refugees, etc. etc. with disabilities.
And the Accessible Canada Act coming into force
in just less than five years has given that opportunity.
We're not saying that Canada is addressing
all the barriers that we face,
but we are entering into those conversations.
And I think uniquely placing disability
with diversity and inclusion
is also a huge opportunity
within the ministerial portfolio
to bring that intersectional piece to the forefront.
And I'm really, really hoping that people
who are working on the diversity and inclusion work
embrace bringing in the accessibility conversation,
rather than working in these compartmentalized spaces,
which has been historically the case
when it comes to diversity, equity, and inclusion work.
Because there's been separate legislation
addressing accessibility,
oftentimes organizations have taken that position to say,
"Well, we're doing accessibility work over here.
It's separate from our diversity,
equity, and inclusion work."
And really it's not. It has to go hand in hand.
-Thank you so much, Rabia,
for that clear and powerful explanation.
So, now we're going to go to round two of the questions.
And I have two questions that I will read out.
And I will invite each of our panelists
to choose one of those questions and to answer,
provide their information and feedback on the question.
So, question number one is...
Question number one is right here on my papers.
Not that one. Sorry for this.
This panel includes representation
from persons with disabilities,
disability organizations, banks,
and the federal government.
Why is it important that we collaborate
with one another and others
to advance work towards a barrier-free Canada by 2040?
And how can we do this more efficiently and effectively?
So, that's question number one.
Question number two --
what is one thing that we can do right now
to speed up the process
towards a barrier-free Canada in 2040?
And I imagine -- there's three minutes.
You have three minutes for each panelist,
and you may want to try and answer both,
because I'm sure you've got some good ideas.
So, we'll go in reverse order.
And, Rabia, let's begin with you.
-Oh, my goodness. Okay.
[ Laughter ]
-Surprise! -Can I ask you
just to repeat the questions again?
Because you put both in,
and I want to make sure I'm capturing.
-You bet. The first question --
This panel includes representation
from persons with disabilities,
disability organizations, banks,
and the federal government.
Why is it important that we collaborate
with one another and others
to advance work towards a barrier-free Canada in 2040?
And how can we do this more efficiently and effectively?
So, the question is about collaboration, working together.
-If we don't work together,
we might check off the box
that's required for accessibility.
Are we meeting the letter of the law?
Yeah, we might, but we may miss the intent.
And the intent is genuinely to create a Canada
that's barrier-free for everybody.
And a few people, an organization alone,
a department by itself,
a subject matter expert
does not have the entirety of knowledge
required to appreciate and understand
the various nuances
that go with living with a disability,
alongside all other aspects of our lived experience
and our living experience.
So, therefore you cannot, for example,
address barriers in banking
if you do not understand,
you know, the technological barriers,
but not just technological barriers for a blind person,
but technological barriers for across the board disabilities.
Plus, perhaps, English or French
is not the person's first language.
Perhaps they're newcomers.
Perhaps their socioeconomic status.
So, there's -- again, I bring in that approach
to intersectionality
being fundamentally embedded in doing accessibility work,
that if we don't reach out and partner
with people with disabilities, with grassroots communities,
not just large-scale national service providers, for example,
but people on the ground, day-to-day users.
User experience is really, really important.
The work that we're doing, for example,
at Race and Disability Canada is really about collaboration,
about bringing forward the voices of grassroots communities
who have been working for decades
without resources on the ground
to bring forward the barriers,
the unique barriers that they face
when accessing government services,
when accessing transportation services,
when accessing financial services, etc., etc.,
when looking for a job.
So, you know, our roots go back to an organization called
Ethno-Racial People with Disabilities
Coalition of Ontario,
where a racialized woman with a disability lost her job.
And in that process that brought her to that point,
she had requested accommodation
based on her hearing loss and was denied.
She had requested accommodation on the basis of her faith.
She wanted to be able to do her daily ritual of puja --
she was Hindu -- and she was denied that access.
She requested religious accommodation
in terms of her dietary restrictions.
She was denied that.
She was harassed on the basis of her gender.
All this stuff,
and she could not be supported
in addressing that holistic experience.
Everywhere she turned,
people wanted to box her in into one identity,
a single story of either disablement or being a woman,
or being a newcomer, or being racialized,
or being an employee.
Nobody wanted to address the whole package.
This conversation has gone on for decades,
and we've brought it full circle now.
Thank you to some resources
being invested by the federal government
to bring forward organizations like ERDCO,
like the Organization of Canadian Tamils
with Disabilities, ATI Foundation,
and DEEN, leading the way forward
to look at that intersectional expertise
that we have in our lived experience
and bringing it forward to collaborate
with various service sectors and socioeconomic spaces
so that we do address accessibility barriers
and ensure the full inclusion of people with disability.
-Thank you. Rabia.
Okay, Max, over to you, and I'll...
Would you like me to repeat the questions?
-No, I'm all good, Bill.
I'm going to, like Rabia,
pick up on your first question,
about the importance of collaboration
because I really -- I like a lot of what Rabia said,
and I'm going to kind of riff off of that,
perhaps a little bit.
I mean, so collaboration is,
we see at the agency as a critical tool.
And I mean, it's kind of central
to the "nothing without us" principle.
It's also one of the agency's four priorities
that we've outlined in our corporate business plan.
We have a really broad mandate, as you can appreciate.
And so, we must rely on partnerships and collaboration
to achieve our mandate on a number of fronts.
So, collaboration is top of mind.
But it's also that notion of collaboration,
consultation is also aligned with our service vision
and that vision that I described of being user-centric.
You can't claim to be user-centric
if you're not seeking the feedback of your clientele
about their experience
and attempting to address
some of the issues that they're facing,
whether we're talking about persons with disabilities
or persons with other different lived experiences
that need to be taken into account.
And this is where -- I really love the point
that Rabia was making about intersectionality
and the fact that these things have been kind of dealt with
a little bit in a siloed way, which, you know,
at least speaking for the federal apparatus,
and that's something that is coming up
in the consultations and discussions
that we're having internally
with persons with disabilities at the agency.
And they are telling us, "Yeah, I'm a person with disability,
but I'm also a racialized individual.
I'm, you know, all sorts of other factors."
The other aspect of the importance, for me,
of collaboration is that, of course,
in the course of their everyday lives,
like all Canadians,
we know that persons with disabilities
are going to interact with, you know, all three sectors,
whether public, private, not for profit.
And within that,
a number of persons with disabilities
will rely on the support of third parties as well,
whether they're from the non-profit or private sector,
to assist them with their interactions with government.
And certainly that's true of their interactions with the CRA.
And whatever the mandate of any organization,
the client's expectations
with regard to their service experience
is going to be shaped by the experience
that they're having when they're interacting
with other organizations.
So, simply put, like, at the CRA,
we're keenly aware of the fact
that, you know, we're big federal agency.
We're not an Apple, we're not an Amazon,
we're not a Scotiabank.
But the clientele that interacts with us,
that have come to expect a certain level of service
or ease of service or client experience, you know,
through their interactions with Apple and Amazon,
those expectations are there
when they're interacting with the agency.
And again, this is whether we're talking
about persons with disabilities or other clients.
So, in a sense,
I'm kind of looking at this with a hopeful lens
that if the Accessible Canada Act
can encourage any organization
to become, you know, a little bit more innovative
in this space and make progress,
and that can change our clientele's expectations,
then that will put pressure on organizations
to have to follow suit.
And we've certainly been living that
on a number of fronts at the agency,
in terms of our program design and service delivery.
And we hear, you know, constantly from our clientele
that, "Well, you know, I can do this a certain way with my bank,
so why can't I do this in the same way with the CRA?"
And that puts pressure on us
to deliver things a little bit differently.
So, to me, I think that there's --
that's where the inherent benefit
of that collaboration is, as Rabia mentioned,
getting access to these, you know, lessons learned,
best practices that other organizations might be doing,
you know, might be putting in place,
and drawing inspiration from that,
but even more so, the pressure on the expectations, you know,
the pressure that our clientele is going to
increasingly put on us to deliver things
in a way that meets their expectations.
I'll close by saying we had a --
we're very fortunate to to have Stephanie Cadieux
accept to come and talk to our management table
a few months back, just on the heels
of the publication of our progress report.
And as we asked for her advice
on how to consider things moving forward
and continue to make progress,
she sort of brought us back to the early days
of the pandemic and said, "You know,
some of the innovative ways to do things
and deliver services to customers during the pandemic
that businesses came up with,
including things like curbside pickup or whatnot,
were things that, you know,
that the persons with disabilities community
had been advocating for for years.
But it took a pandemic to affect able-bodied people,
for people to kind of turn around on a dime
and come up with those innovations
that benefited everyone
and not just persons with disabilities.
And that really stuck with me.
And that's what I'm hoping, you know,
this angle of collaboration, can bring, you know,
to everybody's game or everybody's stance
as they approach the challenge here.
You know, eliminating barriers for persons with disabilities
is eliminating barriers for all Canadians.
And that's something we should strive for.
And anything that puts pressure on us
to have to deliver in that space,
to my mind, is a good thing.
Thanks.
-Thank you so much, Max, for your insightful comments.
And, Jen, we invite your comments
on one or both of the questions.
-I think I'm going to answer both
because I think there's an aspect of this
that's sort of intertwined in the answer.
And definitely agree with both Max and Rabia
in what they're saying.
So, the Accessible Canada Act principle,
nothing about us without us, is crucial, really,
in accelerating progress towards a barrier-free Canada,
as, you know, we've all mentioned here,
and when we actively involve people with disabilities,
we gain those insights into the real life barriers
that they're encountering daily.
And while regulatory requirements
are certainly perceived as an endpoint,
often, they should be seen as foundational guidelines
providing organizations with a framework to build upon.
And so, when we consider feedback that we receive
by either clients or employees,
we end up uncovering these areas
that are ripe for improvement.
And these areas, you know, may vary
between financial institutions, for example.
But when we place people with disabilities
at the center of our work,
we level the playing field across the financial sector
and ultimately enhance the quality of services
that are available.
I also believe that advancing the goal of an accessible Canada
necessitates greater cross-sector engagement.
So, while there's avenues for engagement
within the financial sector, for example,
I do believe that we could expand our efforts
by fostering an open dialogue with the federal government.
A colleague of mine, rightly, noted recently
that both banks and government
significantly impact people's daily lives,
regardless of a disability or not.
And so, suggesting that a stronger partnership
between these groups would certainly be advantageous.
And, you know, Max, you made a few comments there,
similar to what I'm saying.
But lastly, I think enhanced alignment
also between the federal and provincial governments,
especially from a regulatory standpoint,
would greatly contribute to standardizing expectations
around the services provided to people with disabilities.
-Thank you very much, Jen.
Louis. Two questions.
You've got three minutes.
-Yes, absolutely.
Three minutes is not a lot to answer these questions.
So, I will try, and I will try and answer both
in such a short time.
On accessibility, while it is very important
for Deaf people in Canada and in certain provinces...
...we need to discuss together to make barriers fall by 2040.
You know, that's in 16 years.
That's going to come fast.
There are Deaf and hard of hearing people
who might have other disabilities,
invisible disabilities,
so people can walk around and go to work, for example,
but they might have communication issues.
So, there's so many things to look at
when we talk about accessibility.
There are so many barriers that need to fall.
So, if we talk about private companies
who don't want to offer interpretation services
because it's expensive, well, that's not acceptable.
Accessibility needs to be for everyone.
If we look at TD Bank, for example,
they offer interpretation services.
You need to make an appointment,
whether it's to get a mortgage or whatever it be.
In general, there has been satisfaction
with regard to that service with TD Bank,
but with Revenue Canada, with their video relay service,
we can call and get direct access,
but sometimes the wait time is quite long
because interpreters aren't always available
and you need to wait.
But now with direct services, well, that has improved.
And there's so much more to be done.
Let's talk about airports, for example.
We really need to improve services in airports.
In the prison system as well.
There's so much work to be done there.
We need to work together in collaboration
with other organizations,
and that is at the heart of it all.
I think that by 2040,
I think that...
...it will be at the provincial level,
so at the decision-making level
that we might need to do a little bit of work
with health care, for example.
That's a provincial jurisdiction.
So, provinces might say,
"Well, maybe we'll be putting in this service or that service."
And if that happens, well, I hope
that the federal government
would be able to have an influence
and to have accessible services.
So, everybody -- provinces, territories, and so on --
should work to make all obstacles fall by 2040.
We all need to work together
because everybody has similar frustrations,
and I think that there is still a lot of work
left to be done on that level.
-Thank you, Louis. Thank you very much.
That concludes the second round of questions.
And we now will spend about 10 minutes or so
answering questions from our audience.
And I believe a number of people across the country
have been submitting questions.
And we have public service experts standing by
or sitting by to read the questions.
So, may I have the first question, please?
-Sure.
The Accessible Canada Act
aspires for the highest level of accessibility.
What can be done to change the perspective
from solely focusing on accommodation
to focusing on what the act aspires to?
That is, the highest level of accessibility
and incorporating accessibility from the start.
-Thank you very much for the question.
And it is not necessary
that all panelists respond to the question,
but I will ask, is there -- do one of you --
would one of you like to answer this question
from your perspective? Just raise your hand.
Rabia. -I can do this, Bill.
And my accommodation is physically raising my hand
as opposed to trying to find it on Zoom.
That's an excellent question.
And really, what it comes down to, again,
is centering lived experience.
Nothing about us without us,
or as the government's mantra is right now,
nothing without us.
Disabled people have to be central to any conversation,
any decision, any action advancing accessibility.
If we are not at the table, things get missed.
And in order to ensure
that we shift to an approach to universal accessibility
or, you know, applying universal design principles
to ensure a barrier-free Canada and world,
people with disabilities have to be there
to identify what those barriers are
and not just requesting one-off accommodations,
but really impressing upon people without disabilities
that when we remove barriers, it's good for everybody.
And recognizing that our population today sits at 27%,
you know, our hashtag at Disability Without Poverty
is "We are the 27%."
Well, the 27% of us
are also connected to at least two other people
that maybe brought us into this world
and others that we live, love, laugh, work, play with,
raise, and support.
So, that covers off most of our population.
Advancing a barrier-free Canada,
ensuring accessibility is good for everybody,
not just good for disabled people.
So, one-off accommodations don't cut it.
When we implemented automatic doors in grocery stores
to help people carry loads of groceries out
and push shopping carts,
it helped parents with children in strollers,
and it helped disabled people.
We know, we have proven
that accessibility benefits all,
not just the person with a disability.
So, that needs to be impressed upon those charged
with implementing any initiatives
related to the inclusion of disabled people
to shift the conversation
from accommodation to accessibility,
recognizing that there will always be a need
for accommodation
because we are unique human beings
with unique lived experiences
and not every person with a disability is the same.
No two fingers are the same,
and this rings true for our needs
when it comes to addressing the barriers
we face as blind people, as Deaf people,
as people with physical disabilities, etc., etc.
So, accommodation will always be there,
but accessibility is the goal if inclusion is the destination.
-Thank you, Rabia.
May I please have another question from the audience?
-So, there was a lot of discussion in the panel
about working together with many different people and groups
within communities and workplaces.
What are some of the effective ways
for bringing everyone together with the disability community
to affect change?
-Thank you for the question.
And is there a panelist
that would like to jump in on this one?
-Yeah, it's Max. I'm happy to take a crack at this.
-Thanks, Max.
-I mean, an event like the one we're having today,
I guess, as a start, would be, I think to my mind,
a great example of the type of thing that can get us
to the objective that was posed in the question.
You know, one of the things that has come up
in discussions with persons with disabilities,
our persons with disabilities network at the agency,
is, you know, should we make training
mandatory in this space?
And very often, when that question comes up,
the conversation that ensues, because, you know,
if it comes up in a kind of an event like this,
is that you --
and discussion-based and sharing lived experiences-based event
like the one we're having today, ends up doing more, I think,
for raising awareness than, you know,
taking a 45-minute online course and ticking that box.
And we've seen this time and time again
in the events that we've put on at the agency where the goal,
to pick up on Rabia's answer to the previous question,
if the goal is to move from, you know,
simply doing an on-demand accommodation
to doing a proactive level of accessibility
that will benefit all,
that requires that increased level of knowledge and awareness
amongst, you know, everyone in an organization,
including people like me that don't have a disability,
but, you know, that happened to be sitting in a chair
where I'm in charge of, you know, designing programs
or activities or those kinds of things.
So, that's one of the concrete ways for me,
is the more we can promote these types of exchanges
with different people, with different lived experiences,
from various organizations,
who represent, you know, a broad variety of individuals,
that's the way we're going to up our game
in all of these spaces.
Now, there's technical expertise that's required
if you're talking about, you know,
making applications online accessible.
Of course, you know, there's a space there
for some formal training and courses
and that kind of thing.
And certainly, organizations need to invest in that.
But the discussion-based, I think, you know, collaboration,
really helps, you know, destigmatize
and raise the level of awareness and understanding
and promote a culture where people look at acc--
or at least strive to achieve accessibility by design,
as opposed to, you know, accommodation on demand.
I can put it that way. Thanks.
-Thank you. Max. Next question, please.
-People are not aware
of the wealth of the Deaf culture in Canada.
How can we better support American Sign Language,
langue des signes québécoise, and indigenous sign languages,
and the Deaf culture in general in Canada?
-Thank you very much for the question.
And I imagine, Louis, you may want to respond to this one.
-Yes, I would.
It's an interesting question.
How can we support the Deaf community,
the hearing deficient?
As you know, the Deaf Association of Canada --
Association of the Deaf in Canada...
...reaches many communities,
but there are not many people everywhere in the association.
For example, here in Quebec,
we have several associations
for the Deaf or hard of hearing.
And, for example, in ReQIS, where I work,
it's a Quebec network for the Deaf.
And that organization defends different values
because there is a lot of members
at the local level who have services
both for the Deaf and for the hard of hearing,
but the general awareness
needs to be propagated among the hearing.
Perhaps there are -- there's awareness to be raised.
Often, we ask for that to be done,
but then we'll be told, "Oh, it's not really necessary."
But we shouldn't limit us
because we are participating in the same world
as the other people,
and for people to be aware about us
would be good for all Deaf cultures in Canada.
-Thank you so much.
We have time for one more quick question.
And, Jen, I want to give you a chance to have a final word
on that one. Question, please.
-I have another question here for Louis.
Louis, have you seen offices
that have notification equipment for emergency situations?
The standard appears to be audio only
for many buildings announcing evacuations, for example.
Is there visual notifications?
If yes, then how was it set up?
-Louis, can you answer that within a minute, please?
I know this would be a long answer, but real quick.
Thanks.
-Yes. It's a good question.
In terms of fires, in Quebec,
the standard in terms of buildings,
there are two options.
There are sound beeps that exist.
Sometimes, there's white flashing lights, as well.
But we can notice that quite easily,
but why not put that kind of system everywhere?
The Accessible Canada Act could facilitate that.
I think an apartment, for example...
...apartment building,
where they have specialized services for the Deaf
with lights and so forth,
it has that, but it's not everywhere.
So I think there is a lot of room for improvement
on that score. Thank you.
-Thank you, Louis.
Is there one more quick question that I can hand to Jen?
And if there isn't, Jen, I would just give you a minute
to make additional comments.
Maybe we should do that,
as we're very close to ending,
and to be respectful to everybody
who spent time with us today.
Jen, what would you like to offer?
Any insights?
-I really think it's about cross-sectoral collaboration.
So, you know, hearing Rabia speak about the grassroots
and intersectionality
and getting folks with disabilities involved.
It's also about making sure the private sector is engaged
and aware of the need for, one, compliance,
but also making their spaces and their services accessible,
and then making sure that the governments understand
that it's not always as easy to implement
the way that maybe it's written in law.
And so, is there some flexibility
for us to look at things in a principles-based setting,
giving organizations some flexibility
on how to implement,
rather than always being prescribed
the way that we implement some of these things.
And I think that would help in general,
making Canada more accessible and towards our goal.
-Thank you, Jen.
Great insights from everyone,
and I want to thank all the panelists
for being here today.
There is a wealth of information and ideas
that have been -- my apology for that --
that have been offered here today.
And real quickly,
collaboration and partnerships is a major one.
Get rid of the silos. Remove the silos.
Another theme is being innovative
and understanding
that client expectations are going to drive change.
And the importance of identifying role models
and organizations and groups
that are doing excellent work
and can share that information with others
so people don't have to reinvent the wheel.
There was a couple of really important quotes.
One of them was, "When you eliminate barriers
for people with disabilities,
we remove barriers for all people in Canada."
And the other important quote is that
"We are more than people with disabilities."
We have many, many -- much diversity in our
in our personalities and in what we experience in life.
And we can't just be looking at disabilities.
We need to look at the whole person
and everything that we are.
So, there's so much more, a lot of richness here.
And it seems to me that the Accessible Canada Act
is providing a roadmap for us to make changes.
And it's my hope that as we go into the next five years,
we go faster and faster and faster
and gain more ground.
And by working together,
based on so much of what we've talked about here today,
we'll get farther, faster.
So, with that, I want to thank the panelists.
I want to thank the interpreters very much
for being with us today.
I want to thank the audience who have been listening to this,
and also thank the audience for everything that they do
to advance access and inclusion.
And also behind the scenes, our public service team members
that have helped put this together
and had it run as smoothly as it has.
So, with that, I will hand it back to Bean and Varda.
Thank you so much. Oh, back over to you.
-Yes, it's my turn to thank all of you.
I'd like to thank --
I've learned a lot from this very instructive discussion.
I was -- I was very marked
by a lot of things that were said.
I'm going to quote Rabia, whose remarks really touched me.
Living in a situation,
you know, a disabled people were part of visible minorities.
That can have several challenges.
And when Louis spoke about accommodations,
I had seen something quite similar.
Yesterday, I took an airplane.
I was outside of this place,
and there was a person who complained
that they didn't have the necessary space for their legs.
And it was a very small plane, and there wasn't much space.
And I didn't understand that in 2024,
when we talk about inclusion,
that we hadn't thought that there might be people
who are in -- or with -- or have disabilities
and that person wasn't able to be accommodated.
I'm an optimistic person by nature,
and I think a lot of effort has been made to improve things.
I think that with time, as Bill mentioned,
things will get better.
We're living in Canada, after all --
a large, great country that has a lot of respect
and wants the well-being of its citizenry.
But despite the progress,
there is still a lot of room for improvement.
So, I'd like to say that it is collectively
that we will be able to make the difference.
Bill, Bean, what do you think?
-What do you think?
-Yeah. -Oh, definitely.
It's working together.
And, yeah.
And, Bean, over to you for any final comments,
-Sure. Yeah. Thank you.
I again, I also want to echo what Varda said.
So, thank you to all the panelists
and Bill for moderating that great discussion.
For me, I think the resounding theme
that came from everybody's answers
is we need people with lived experience
at the core of every policy,
every level of government, every organization,
if we're actually going to have true inclusion.
"Nothing about us without us" rings true in my heart.
And, you know, I deal with vendors all the time,
living life with a wheelchair,
and although they mean well
and they work for people with disabilities,
and they might have people with disabilities
in their home and whatever, they still don't understand.
And there's still lots of barriers with that.
And so, I think we just need to also eliminate the gap
between, you know, non-disabled and disabled.
If we all think of ourselves as one step away
from joining the disability community
or, you know, I mean, technically,
if you're wearing glasses, that's a mobility device
to help you see better, right?
So, just like my wheelchair helps me move better,
we're not that different.
And I think all of Canada, the whole population,
all 40 million people in this country
really need to understand that.
And when they can understand that,
that's when we're going to see true action
in creating true inclusion.
I just loved what everybody had to say.
Um, you know, Max,
I love what you said about eliminating barriers
for people with disabilities,
that it eliminates barriers for everyone.
And I go back to that analogy about ramps and stairs.
Not everybody can use the stairs,
but everybody can use a ramp, right?
And so, some things, sometimes it's just simplicity
that we need to go back to.
But, yeah, I am just -- that was a really great discussion.
Thank you to everyone for your insights.
I learned a lot,
and I hope everybody who's watching
has learned and taken down some notes as well.
We now have a health break.
And I know I'm really excited about this
because I have a neurogenic bladder,
and I need to use the bathroom.
So, Congress organizers told me
that we have frequent health breaks.
It's because of the feedback that was given
in the previous CCDIs.
That's why it's important for you to provide your feedback
at the end of the Congress by responding
to the feedback form sent by the e-mail
following the event.
So, please do not forget to submit your feedback.
During the health break,
feel free to stretch, to have a snack,
or to step out for some fresh air.
Enjoy your break, and we will see you back
at 12:55 Eastern Time.
And don't be late for our next keynote speaker.