OLLO – Summary Report - Standing Senate Committee On Official Languages – February 6, 2023

Date and time: November 21, 2022 / 5:00 to 7:30 p.m.
Videoconference (hybrid and in-person and zoom)

Report prepared by:
Geneviève Dubois-Richard, Cabinet and Parliamentary Affairs
Canadian Heritage
genevieve.dubois-richard@pch.gc.ca

Committee Members

René Cormier (ISG) (Chair)
Rose-May Poirier (C) (Deputy Chair)
Bernadette Clement (ISG)
Jean-Guy Dagenais (CSG)
Pierre J. Dalphond (PSG)
Raymonde Gagné (Non-affiliated)
Marie-Françoise Mégie (ISG)
Percy Mockler (C)
Lucie Moncion (ISG)

Subject

Study matters relating to Francophone immigration to minority communities

Witnesses

Panel 1:

Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

• Raymond Théberge, Commissioner
• Pascale Giguère, General Counsel
• Pierre Leduc, Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Communications Branch
• Martin Labelle, Director of Investigations, Compliance Assurance Branch

Panel 2:

Université de Hearst

• Samantha Losier, International Office Advisor
  • Université de Saint-Boniface

Christian Perron, Director, Recruitment and Student Services
Université Sainte-Anne
Luc Tardif, Director of International Recruitment and Immersion Schools, Recruitment Office
Collège Communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick
Juan Manuel Toro Lara, Director, Enrolment Management

Summary

Panel 1

Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

• More than a decade, francophone immigration to minority communities is a priority.
• The declining demographic weight of the French-speaking minority population in comparison to the English-speaking population continues to be a major concern.
• 4.4% immigration target for French-speaking immigrants in francophone minority communities, which was adopted almost 20 years ago, has never been reached by the federal government.
• We need a clear new objective and a much more ambitious Francophone immigration target.
• We also need to pay close attention to the retention and integration of newcomers in the communities to maintain the demographic weight of francophones outside Quebec.
• The government must commit to a more ambitious target and consider all the changes required at the various stages of the francophone immigration continuum.
• Acknowledges the opening of the federal government’s new Centre for Innovation in Francophone Immigration in Dieppe, New Brunswick, which aims to help increase the number of francophone immigrants coming to Canada.
• Bill C-13 has the potential to transform the linguistic regime in Canada by making the Official Languages Act a law that will allow our official languages to progress and that will defend the language rights of Canadians.
• The support of the Canadian public needs to be backed by strong policies and initiatives in all parts of society so that both of Canada’s two official languages can thrive across the country.

First round of questions

Raymonde Gagné (Non-affiliated)

• In your opinion, what elements are missing from Bill C-13, and why do you feel it is important to amend certain provisions of Part VII?
  • Théberge: Federal institutions have a lot of leeway for implementation; positive measures, impact studies and consultations are needed.
• Do you think the regulations should be used to further develop the whole issue of impact studies and to further define what main is meant by positive measures?
  • Théberge: Yes, the details of the implementation and how it can be done will be set out in the regulations.
• Am I to understand that the directive on the sale of federal lands should ultimately be in the regulations?
  • Théberge: We certainly need to be clearer in the regulations about what is expected of federal institutions.

Marie-Françoise Mégie (ISG)

• Would imposing bilingualism a hiring criterion affect the bilingualism bonus offered to employees? Could it create issues or controversy? What do you think?
  • Théberge: I do not see how the bilingualism bonus can have an impact on ensuring that people are proficient in both official languages to hold a position.
• How would you describe the government’s responses to your studies?
  • Théberge: Our report on the Language Institute led to the creation of a working group at the Treasury Board Secretariat that looked at ways to create better conditions for ensuring the vitality of both official languages in the workplace.

Lucie Moncion (ISG)

• Knowing that racism in the processing of immigration applications disproportionately affects Francophone immigration, what role can the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages play in addressing this systemic problem at IRCC?
  • Théberge: The official language commissioner’s role in this situation is related to the study that we conducted and ensuring that a Francophone immigration policy is developed for the future that is separate from the current policy dual Anglophone and Francophone policy. The only way to avoid certain systemic problems like those that you have mentioned is to establish a holistic policy that deals with Francophone immigration separately from Anglophone immigration.
• How do we, in a policy, reduce the impact of the bias of those making the decisions to accept or refuse applicants, when it comes to accepting Francophone immigration applications from countries in Africa?
  • Théberge: There must be checks to see if there is a bias in the infamous algorithm in the Chinook system. A lot of decisions are made by that software.

René Cormier (ISG) (Chair)

• Do you think the policy should include an initiative that helps applicants? I think part of the reason applications are being refused has to do with the challenges applicants face in filling out their applications and following the steps properly.
  • Théberge: I believe that, if we are looking for candidates, we need to give them the support they need to fill out the forms and submit their applications correctly.
• Should bilingualism in the senior public service be included in the amendments to Bill C-13? Where should those obligations be to ensure that the federal government is truly accountable, responsible and actively working to ensure the senior public service is bilingual?
  • Théberge: I think that if lawmakers felt the need to include a bilingualism requirement for senior officials in the bill, that would be a significant step.
• Should we require high-ranking officials and ambassadors to be bilingual?
  • Théberge: If we really want to showcase the official languages on the world stage, our ambassadors and other diplomats must be able to communicate in both official languages.
• Do you support the concept of a restorative target as proposed by the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne?
  • Théberge: It is clear that we need to try to restore the demographic between the two communities. To do this, it is obvious that the 4.4% target is insufficient, and if we maintain this 4.4% with the new immigration targets set by the federal government a few weeks ago, the gap will continue to widen.
• In your opinion, should the legislative provisions applicable to port and airport authorities by harmonized? It was understood that there were differences and demands to harmonize that. What do you think?
  • Théberge: I think that anything that affects what I call the “travelling public” should be harmonized. Our choice of mode of transportation should not have an impact on our language rights.
• What do you think about the comments that Bill C-13 should include provisions to protect federally regulated private businesses or federal institutions from vexatious litigation?
  • Théberge: I think we need agreement on the definition of “vexatious litigation”. If you’re in court, it is always adversarial. We need to let the courts determine what is or is not vexatious.

Percy Mockler (C)

• When we look at the number of complaints and the methodology you use to resolve those complaints and respond to them in a reasonable time frame, what accounts for the record number of complaints received by your office in 2021-22?
  • Théberge: There are two events that account for 75% of the complaints: the English-only speech by the CEO of Air Canada and the appointment of a unilingual Governor General in August. Those two different categories of complaints are different. One relates specifically to Part IV and the other to Part VII. Complaints are rising again this year. Why? I think Canadians are increasingly aware of their language rights.
• When we look at past statistics in light of Bill C-13, should Bill C-13 be amended to apply official languages obligations to senior management staffing in the federal public service and Governor-in-Council appointments?
  • Théberge: I believe it is up to lawmakers to determine whether they want to include that type of directive in regulations.
• Can you give more information about or explain the reason behind why you asked a parliamentary committee to study this issue, rather than approaching the ministers responsible for its application?
  • Théberge: Your role as a committee is often to shed light on issues. Here, the issue involves the entire federal government and even beyond that. The issue is bigger than a single minister. It is government-wide.
• Should federal institutions report specifically on their progress in their annual reports to the Treasury Board Secretariat and Canadian Heritage as they do for substantive equality?
  • Théberge: I believe that Treasury Board’s role is extremely important in this respect. One of Treasury Board’s roles is precisely to ensure reporting and accountability.
• Do you have any comments on the Department of Canadian Heritage?
  • Théberge: It is clear that Canadian Heritage and its predecessor have always been the government’s chosen representative for reaching out and working with official language minority communities.

Bernadette Clement (ISG)

• How do you think we can overcome the inconsistency between the various levels of government and ensure that municipalities and communities are directly involved?
  • Théberge: Municipalities are at the heart of every aspect of immigration. We must also ensure that the resources are in the right place. It is extremely important for organizations to be well funded to welcome immigrants properly. You need to know what the real needs of immigrants are when they arrive in your community. Once you know that, you have to ask yourself if the community has the resources and tools to meet those needs.
• Could you elaborate on why you are optimistic? Why are you optimistic when you see the results of this survey from 2021?
  • Théberge: Being optimistic is part of the job description when you work at the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages. The Environics 2021 survey is similar to the survey conducted in 2016. It found that approximately 87% of Canadians of all ages, wherever they are located, support the objectives of the Official Languages Act.

Second round of questions

Raymonde Gagné (Non-affiliated)

• Do you still have the human and financial resources to ensure that complaints are handled in a timely manner?
  • Théberge: I would say that the Office of the Commissioner is not structured to respond to the volume of complaints seen in the past year.
• You began to talk about the topic of my other question: have you ever assessed the resources needed for Bill C-13, if the bill is passed as it stands.
  • Théberge: The bill refers to mediation. We do not currently mediate at the Office of the Commissioner. So, a mediation unit will need to be established. At this time, we do not enter into compliance agreements. We do not issue orders. We will need to have staff to do that.

Lucie Moncion (ISG)

• I would like to hear you on some of the specifics of the immigration policy.
  • Théberge: The first thing to be recognized is the need to differentiate targets according to the communities. To me, that is obvious.
• Should the government slow down Anglophone immigration to allow Francophone immigration to catch up?
  • Théberge: I certainly have a problem with the new immigration targets being set without really looking into Francophone immigration. They simply said that the target would be maintained at 4.4%, we will continue doing what we were doing before, and some things will be improved. The only way to meet the target of 4.4%, or whatever the figure is, is to adopt a specific policy.

René Cormier (ISG) (Chair)

• Some say that for Francophone immigration, we should target countries where neither English nor French is spoken. What do you think?
  • Théberge: The only way for that approach to succeed is to have very high-quality training programs in place.
• Do Anglophone communities in Quebec fear losing their rights? Is that a legitimate fear and how is it addressed in Bill C-31? Are Anglophone minority communities losing rights?
  • Théberge: The bill takes an asymmetrical approach that promotes and protects French, but not necessarily at the expense of English. Nothing is preventing the promotion of French and, at the same time, the protection of the linguistic rights of both communities.
• I would like to hear from you on the official languages maturity model. Has this tool led to improved compliance? Can you give us some actual examples? How has this tool been effective?
  • Théberge: The maturity model is not a tool for measuring compliance, but for measuring the state of the processes and procedures in place for ensuring implementation.

Percy Mockler (C)

• With your experience, do you agree with the Quebec Community Groups Network, which is calling for the withdrawal of Bill C-13 as it stands?
  • Théberge: No, I believe that Bill C-13 is very promising for the future of official languages in Canada. At this point in the process, I believe that we should move forward.
• Do you and your team agree with the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, which wants to speed up the passage of Bill C-13 by ending the debate?
  • Théberge: We consulted everyone. Everyone wrote reports. All stakeholders have spoken. As well, there is a clause in the bill that states that it can be reviewed after 10 years. I believe the time has come to act.
• How could parliamentarians ease the fears about Bill C-13?
  • Théberge: The bill is divided into two sections: there is official languages section, which deals with Part I to Part XII, and the UFA; that is different. In our brief, we suggest codifying the concept of substantive equality in the UFA to respond to the concerns that people have.
• With your vast experience you’ve accumulated throughout the country Canada and in our communities, both Anglophone and Francophone, and I could include Indigenous communities, can you tell me which entity would be the best choice for administering Bill C-13: Canadian Heritage or the Treasury Board?
  • Théberge: In my opinion, it would be the Treasury Board. The Treasury Board is a central agency that influences the entire federal administration, while Canadian Heritage is a department with a specific mandate.
• What would you think if the responsibility directly fell under the Prime Minister’s Office?
  • Théberge: Honestly, I have never thought about that, so it would be hard for me to comment on it.

Marie-Françoise Mégie (ISG)

• With respect to the proposal by the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada to create the position of Assistant Deputy Minister responsible for Francophone immigration, do you think that it is relevant given everything we have just said: we must continue, we must enhance and adopt policies? Would that not be a way to help put that entire mechanism in place?
  • Théberge: Certainly. With a directorate or division mandated with Francophone immigration, led by an Assistant Deputy Minister responsible for Francophone immigration, it is clearly important, within the structure and federal administration, that the importance of Francophone immigration be recognized by giving it the necessary resources.

Panel 2

Juan Manuel Toro Lara, Director, Management, Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick (CCNB)

• The CCNB offers approximately 80 programs in 16 program fields in all Francophone regions in the province of New Brunswick through its 5 campuses in Bathurst, Campbellton, Edmundston, Dieppe and the Acadian Peninsula.
• Prior to 2015, the proportion of the CCNB’s international student population was low and was clustered primarily in the greater Dieppe area, the largest region in New Brunswick. Since 2015, the CCNB’s international student population has started settling elsewhere, in the various Francophone regions of the province.
• The institution succeeded in diversifying not only its students’ geographic origin, but also their destinations in New Brunswick.
• In recent years, through rigorous management of the student body, the CCNB has contributed significantly to revitalizing the province’s Francophone communities.
• The international student population is a truly promising recruitment pool for Francophone immigration.
• Under an agreement with IRCC, the CCNB provides French- and English-language training for refugees and immigrants in the Atlantic provinces.

Luc Tardif, Director of International Recruitment and Immersion Schools, Recruitment Office, Université Sainte-Anne

• Université Sainte-Anne is the only French-language post-secondary institution in Nova Scotia, and has been since 1890.
• The influx of new minds from all corners of the global Francophonie, but overwhelmingly from the African continent, has diversified our student body and our rural community population.
• Several factors explain the difficulties in bringing in new recruits, some of which are not the responsibility of our university or the Government of Canada.
  • The biggest challenge is the issuance of visas.
  • The fact that visas from 16 countries are processed at a single visa processing centre in Dakar, Senegal, is an issue.
  • Francophone institutions outside Quebec must constantly struggle to exist in the eyes of immigration officers.
• Greater collaboration between Canadian universities and visa offices around the world would ease some of the frustrations.
• We expect a more transparent and logical system, but above all, a fairer system.

Samantha Losier, International Office Advisor, Université de Hearst

• The Université de Hearst is a post-secondary institution by and for Francophones. It was and still is training the minds that drive and make Northern Ontario shine. In doing so, the Université de Hearst ensures the presence and quality of French in the region.
• In a concrete way, international recruitment has allowed the Université de Hearst to reach out to exceptional people with an immigration background.
• The funds, valuable knowledge and settlement services remain inaccessible to our international students. Why? Due to their temporary status, they are not eligible.
• Support for this clientele from French-speaking African countries is not without its challenges, challenges that many of us tirelessly highlight and condemn.
• Immigration is not part of our mandate, but it has become an important, even essential, part of our work, not just to meet our own needs, but also those of our communities.

Christian Perron, Director, Recruitment and Student Services, Université de Saint-Boniface

• The Université de Saint-Boniface (USB) is the only Francophone university in Western Canada. It offers college and university education, with 30 programs in total.
• Today, international students make up nearly 15% of the overall student population of just over 1,300 students. Those students come from over 20 different countries, but primarily French-speaking Africa.
• The main issues that affect USB’s contribution to Francophone immigration to Manitoba are:
  • The high refusal rate of study permit applications.
  • The branding of Canadian international education abroad.
• USB invests a lot of resources and effort in preparing its activities, recruiting, welcoming, orienting, monitoring, training, retaining, housing and accompanying international students, but it must overcome obstacles, such as risks that fall under federal jurisdiction.
• I recommend the adoption of measures to support minority post-secondary institutions in their efforts to contribute directly to the recruitment of international students and increase Francophone immigration; in particular, the harmonization of messages about international education and immigration would be an asset.

Questions

Lucie Moncion (ISG)

• I would like your opinion on financial weight in relation to the operations of your respective universities.
  • Perron: Tuition fees and fee increases are among the lowest in the country. At the Université de Saint-Boniface, for most courses, the fee is doubled, meaning an international student will pay twice what a Canadian student pays.
  • Toro Lara: At the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick, international students pay about twice what Canadian students pay.
  • Tardif: At the Université Sainte-Anne, international students pay about $2,000 more than Canadian students. We have a type of scholarship system to ensure that they are not charged much more than Canadian students. International recruitment keeps us afloat exist.
  • Losier: At the Université de Hearst, the difference is about $1,600 per year. As well, although that is true, I am in an unusual position because international students make up 75% or 80% of our student body. It is a huge contingent.
• Could you tell us about the government assistance you receive for integrating these people into your community?
  • Losier: The settlement services at the Université de Hearst exist because we created them, we fund them with our budgets and we created an international office.
  • Toro Lara: Our operations and business models receive significant support from the provincial government, which helps us financially to support the settlement services we created with their help. We also believe that financial support from the federal government for direct services to the international student population could benefit the students who are here and help with presenting our institutions in a positive light internationally.
  • Perron: At Saint-Boniface, we do not receive any additional funding for these types of activities, but we deal with our community partners a lot, including Accueil francophone.

Raymonde Gagné (Non-affiliated)

• Are you able to track what your graduates do? If so, I would like to know what percentage of international students become permanent residents.
  • Perron: Right now, we are not really able to keep track of our international students after they graduate. We know that 60% of our graduates apply for permanent residence through the Manitoba nominee program. Do others apply through the federal system? Possibly, but I do not know.
  • Toro Lara: At the CCNB, 90% of graduates from this year and last year applied for post-graduate work permits and received assistance from our immigration consultants on issues related to permanent residence.
  • Tardif: Well over half of our students ultimately obtain a post-graduate work permit.
• Once the Francophone immigration policy mentioned in Bill C-13 is fleshed out, do you believe it would be advisable to address aspects related to the immigration of international students after they graduate?
  • Toro Lara: Definitely, that would be beneficial both for recruitment to our post-secondary institution and for the transition to permanent residence.
  • Losier: I agree. There is clearly dual intent. If we welcome people from Francophone Africa, we know that many of them want to stay, although some do not.
  • In my opinion, it would certainly be beneficial to harmonize international education and immigration strategies and to have something covering those aspects in a policy or legislation.

Marie-Françoise Mégie (ISG)

• Are you aware of the process for obtaining visas, knowing that, with the Chinook algorithm, many applications are blocked? Does your organization handle all that?
  • Perron: I am aware that in our markets, particularly in Francophone Africa, the rejection rate is actually 80%.
  • Losier: At the Université de Hearst, for example, my role as an immigration advisor means helping people prepare their study permit application, which is then processed at a visa office, often located in an embassy.
• Are there other factors you would add or other recommendations you would like to make to improve the process and access to education by Francophone international students?
  • Toro Lara: We believe that enhanced collaboration with IRCC to share this type of information, such as the approval rate for study permit applications, could be very beneficial.
  • Losier: One solution that I find interesting is the Student Direct Stream, which began in five countries and now extends to other countries, including countries in Francophone Africa, where the steps required are much more demanding, but where acceptance rates are slightly higher.

Pierre J. Dalphond (PSG)

• Since September, have you been contacted by the Department of Immigration or Mr. Fraser’s office to say how you might take part in a policy alignment process?
  • Perron: Not to my knowledge.
  • Toro Lara: We were invited to an informal discussion, but not necessarily at that level.
  • Losier: We are talking to you today. We hope that things will continue in the right direction.
• On the ground, have good intentions not yet yielded real results or led to concrete programs?
  • Losier: It is hard to say because, as much as we want to help good people who meet the eligibility criteria and requirements to continue here, we also do not want to contribute to increasing the number of people in Canada without status.
  • Toro Lara: The size of the Anglophone international student clientele has a major impact on public policy, to the detriment of Francophone communities.

René Cormier (ISG) (Chair)

• Are there instances of people who apply for a study permit and who ultimately do not show up at your post-secondary institutions because what they really want is to immigrate? Are there many cases like that?
  • Tardif: Yes. It is hard to give figures. As I said in my address, we have no contacts with embassies or visa offices. So, we do not know the exact number of people.
  • Perron: In cases where Francophone students arrive with the official admission, and they register, we never see them and they eventually unregister, as Mr. Tardif said, this happens once, twice or three times a year at most. It is not common.
  • Losier: We are aware that there are dubious agencies that sometimes issue fraudulent admission letters.
• Do you have any recommendations for improving the consistency of immigration work in Francophone regions?
  • Perron: It must be understood that international education and the recruitment of international students are one of the strategies that support Francophone immigration. It is not the only strategy. It means that the Université de Saint-Boniface is part of the Francophone immigration network that includes over 15 different organizations in Manitoba. When it comes to regionalizing, we will need to work with our community partners that are part of the broad Francophone immigration strategy in Manitoba.
  • Tardif: If we could train new embassy staff and make them aware that there is a French fact outside of Montréal, we would already have done part of the work. I think making the website easier to navigate could help lead to fewer mistakes.
  • Toro Lara: I think it is important and it is time for the government to recognize post-secondary institutions not only as educational institutions, but also as partners of choice in immigration.

Bernadette Clement (ISG)

• Do you have partnerships with your cities and how does that work? What is it like?
  • Toro Lara: In New Brunswick, we work very closely with the municipalities. They are invested in it.
  • Tardif: In the municipality of Clare, there is an initiative called Clare: Municipalité accueillante, where the population commingles with immigrants.
  • Losier: It is true that municipalities are really a key partner for universities. Sometimes you think you are alone in this work and you need their help because you are supporting people who will buy their homes, work on their committees and sit on their municipal councils.
• Mr. Perron, you talked about the strong brand image that would be needed. The image of Canada, I imagine. Do we have a good brand? Have the problems we raised in our conversation harmed Canada’s image?
  • Perron: Yes, I sincerely believe that Canada has an excellent brand identity for international education. However, the comments made this evening, if you hear it said here and there in other countries that Canada seems to have a penchant for rejection, I think those are things that can certainly harm our country’s reputation and willingness to recruit students, sometimes for immigration but sometimes not.

Next Meeting

The next meeting is scheduled for November 28 to continue our study on Francophone immigration to minority communities.