Online Dangers Transcript

Online Dangers:

A National Panel Discussion About Cyberbullying & Online Child Sexual Exploitation for Parents and Caregivers by Public Safety Canada

February 8, 2022

Host: Alyson Schafer

Panellists:

Noni Classen, Director of Education at C3P

Sarah Benkirane, Director of Clinical Operations for Crisis Text Line at Kids Help Phone

Kristin Duval, Senior Research Analyst at RCMP

ENG Transcript (1:06:44)

Alyson: Welcome! Thank you so much for being with us today.  This event; "Online Dangers: Cyberbullying and Online Child Sexual Exploitation" is brought to you by Public Safety Canada.

This event is taking place today, as we come together to honour "Safer Internet Day", a global initiative held every year on the second day of the second week of the second month.  The aim of this campaign is right in its name "To work together for a safer internet", and nobody could want that more than parents and caregivers of our children today, who are growing up online.  So thank you Public Safety Canada for providing this education and support.

My name is Alyson Schafer, and I am first and foremost the mom of two daughters.  I am also a family counsellor in private practice, as well as a parenting expert and guest expert on many of Canada's media channels such as Marilyn Denis, and Global's The Morning Show.

I am the moderator of tonight's discussion panel and just before I introduce our amazing line up of experts on the panel, I'd like to take a moment to recognize that we have representation from coast to coast to coast joining us today. As such, we may acknowledge the many traditional territories that we find ourselves on. I would like to begin by acknowledging the Indigenous Peoples of all the lands that we are on, which we each call home. We do this to reaffirm our commitment and responsibility in improving relationships between nations and improving our own understanding of local Indigenous peoples and their cultures. We acknowledge the ancestral and unseeded territory of all the Inuit, Métis, and First Nations people that call this nation home. We are gathered here today in a spirit of peace, friendship, appreciation, and collaboration.

What an honour to be part of an event with these dynamo women!  Let me introduce to you the line-up on our panel who will be sharing their expertise and wisdom with us tonight. 

First up is Kristin Duval – can you say hello with a wave there?

Kristin: Hello!

Alyson: Hi Kristin! Kristin is a Senior Research Analyst for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. She has been with the RCMP for over 15 years. In her current role as Senior Research Analyst within the Strategic and Operational Services' Program Research and Development Unit, she is involved in the areas of online child sexual exploitation, missing persons and unidentified remains, truth verification and behavioural sciences. Her area of expertise is within online child sexual exploitation, which includes health and wellness, and how to better support the health and wellbeing of those working in this area.

Next, I'd like to introduce Sarah Benkirane who is the Director of Clinical Operations, Crisis Text Line, Kids Help Phone. Sarah say hello!

Sarah:Hi!

Alyson: This is Sarah! Sarah is responsible for overseeing daily operations and clinical support for frontline staff, and she co-chairs the Emergency Service Referrals committee at Kids Help Phone, where her expertise in domestic violence, human trafficking, and child abuse informs the training and continuing education for frontline staff. Sarah provides important insights about how young people reach out for support regarding cyberbullying and online child sexual exploitation.

Last but not least, allow me to introduce Noni Classen. Hi Noni!

Noni: Hi there!

Alyson: Thanks for being with us! Noni is the Director of Education for the Canadian Centre for Child Protection, also know as C3P for short. Since joining the organization in 2004, she has led the development of three national education programs to reduce the sexual victimization of children. These include: Commit to Kids, Kids in the Know, and Teatree Tells. Noni works closely with child-serving organizations across the country including education and sports to help implement a systems-based approach to safeguarding children from childhood sexual abuse.

(0:04:07)

So with that powerhouse of a panel for you tonight, I am sure you are eager to jump in and start hearing from our experts. But before we get to that, I do want to take a moment to just give you an overview of our event this evening. We're going to be together for about an hour. I will be leading a discussion with our panelist for about the next 50 minutes or so, and then we're going to be spending time answering audience questions at the end.

Just because we're answering at the end, please use the functionality of the chat box comments section to post your questions during the entirety of this event. At the end, we will be answering as many questions as we can get to. You can submit a question by using the comment field. These answers will remain anonymous to our attendees and although we'll try to get to as many questions as possible, for any of those questions that aren't answered in this time, please note that we will be answering all of those questions and will be sending them out in a follow-up email for anyone who is registered for this event.  

Also, this event is being recorded, and so that means if you need to step away (we know you're busy with kids at home) or you want to re-watch it for more of the content then it will be recorded and please we encourage you to also get the word out and share it with your friends. We will be posting it at Canada.ca.  

So with out further ado, let us get going!

Let me start. Since the pandemic, our kids have been spending a lot more time online, probably more than ever. With the likelihood of our kids experiencing, witnessing or even participating in cyber-bullying, quite high right now. So, what do we as parents and caregivers need to know to keep informed, and to keep our kids safe. Maybe I'll kick that off with you Sarah at Kids Help Phone.

(0:05:53)

Sarah: Awesome that's a really great question Alyson. With the pandemic, what we're seeing is kids relying now more than ever on social media, and on the internet for communication with their friends, but also with social media communities and social media personalities. That shift to the online world has really caused an increase in the percentage of young people experiencing cyber bullying.

Cyberbullying can contain a really large umbrella of behaviors, but generally it involves the use of technology to intimidate, hurt, or humiliate someone. Some examples could be sending cruel or threatening messages, posting insults on someone else's social media, or harassing someone during online video gaming. One really unique aspect of cyber bullying is the anonymity associated with it. Unlike face-to-face bullying, where we're usually aware of who is targeting us, online cyber bullying can really have more anonymity where the target doesn't know why they're being targeted or by whom they're being targeted.

The other aspect that's kind of different online with cyber bullying is having attacks that could go viral with large audiences, and for the victim that could feel like they can't get away from their attackers, or that everyone around them has seen a degrading message of them or a degrading depiction of them. We're also seeing the degree of cruelty of online attacks has really increased compared to what would happen in person during "traditional bullying".

And finally, at Kids Help Phone, what we're hearing a lot of parents concerned about is, well, how do I know if my child is a victim of cyber bullying? We see that children who have been cyber bullied often seem more upset when they are online, often avoid their computer, or on the contrary, really lean in and spend more time on their computer. They are quickly turning off their devices when parents are around. They might seem a little more reluctant to go to school. They might appear a little more withdrawn or depressed. Obviously, you know your child best, and behaviours can change from child to child, but just being aware of those changes and mood changes in behaviour can be really important as parents.

Alyson: Thanks Sarah. You know we know also that many kids are learning about and building relationships online, and this has been especially true now that there is less opportunity for socializing face-to-face and in real life due to all the COVId-19 restrictions. It seems that people are seeing and sending sexual messages a lot more now. So, what exactly is sexting, and how can we talk to our kids about it, including the risks of sexting, in a way that they will actually listen. So Sarah can I ask you to respond to that first?

Sarah: Yes, for sure, that's a great but pretty complex question Alyson. At Kids Help Phone, and especially with the service that I oversee, the Crisis Text Line, we hear about sexting quite often, both from young people, and also their parents.

Sexting, like cyber bullying, really encompasses a large array of possibilities, including sending and receiving sexual messages, sending nude or partially nude pictures or videos through the internet or mobile devices. A lot of young people who reach out to Kids Help Phone mention that sexting is a way to explore sexuality, trust, boundaries and intimacy.

In my personal experience on the front line of the Crisis Text Line, I've had kids as young as 11 or 12 talking about sexting, although I'd say that most commonly, we see it amongst older teenagers. Because we do see younger kids talking about sexting though, it's important to have parents and caring adults have open and transparent, age-appropriate conversations with their children.

The emphasis here really needs to be on openness. Children respond better to conversations that are exploratory in nature, as opposed to immediately jumping into consequences or accusations. Starting a conversation with a young person can start with a simple "I want to talk to you about sexting" or "I saw this on the news can we talk about it." Be curious, while also respecting their boundaries. As a parent or caring adult, your role is to equip the young person in your life with the right questions and the right information to allow them to make informed decisions. Ultimately, the decision to sext is going to be a personal one.

We also encourage that you have conversations about consent with young people in your lives, reinforcing that it's important for them to feel control of the decision to send a sext, and know who they're sending it to, and how old that person is.

The other question we want to prime our young people to think about is will they have control of where that image or video ends up. These are really big questions to talk through with young people, so offer to talk through them together. Some young people might want time on their own to think through things, and then re-visit in in a couple of days. So really keeping that open discussion and offering them lots of options for how we can have that discussion will lead to some of those more successful discussions.

(0:11:09)

Alyson: And I imagine this gets into some legal territory that the RCMP has to deal with so Kristin can I get your thoughts on this?

Kristin: Certainly, thank you Alyson, and great advice from Sarah. I just wanted to touch on a little bit more about sexting without consent. When a sexual image is shared of someone else without consent, it is known as a non-consensual distribution of intimate images. This is a criminal offence and is a form of pure exploitation.

Sarah also talked a little of some of the implications and the loss of control and I just wanted to re-emphasize that a bit here. When an intimate image is shared with someone else, even if it's shared with someone who they trust, there is that loss of control over what could happen to that image. We see cases where there is sexting initially occurring within the context of a relationship, with consent, with someone who is considered trustworthy, but relationships can end, and they can leave one partner feeling upset, or angry, and as a form of revenge, intimate images can be further shared or posted online. We often hear this being called "revenge porn". Of course, this can be very upsetting and damaging to the person depicted in the images, it can have a negative impact to their health, to their wellbeing, and it can impact how others view them.

In terms of the impact to the individual who shared the image, they could be breaking the law. If an image or video has been shared without consent, or if it's gotten out there on the internet, we do have great resources that young people and parents can access. Your go-to resource is needhelpnow.ca. It's a website geared for teens, for young people, where they can access information on how to regain control over the situation if an intimate image has been shared or posted online. We highly recommend checking out that resource for some tips there.

Alyson: And Noni, can I get your perspective from the Canadian Centre for Child Protection on this sexting topic.

(0:13:41)

Noni: Sure. Just further to what Sarah was saying and what Kristin was saying, I think that we also are seeing an exponential increase in cases that are coming in to us especially since the pandemic. It has really created quite a flurry of problems for children online from what we're seeing, and that's really important for parents to be aware of, because the majority of kids are not telling anybody about this. The majority of kids that we deal with, their parents don't even know that they are talking to us, nor does the school, it's something they are trying to manage on their own.

As we move over further to the sexting side, getting into the non-consensual sharing, there are other criminal code offences that are important for parents to be aware of. One of them is online luring. That is a report that we take in as well through Cybertip, which is Canada's tip line for reporting any online sexual exploitation of children. We operate that tip line here at the Canadian Centre, as well as the Need Help Now report line and website. So, what we're seeing really is that online luring is when an individual, and typically it's an adult we see doing this, communicates with a child and uses technology to facilitate a sexual offence against them.

They start the communication with the child through a popular app or game or website, chatting with them in a way that would be very innocuous, to build the trust of the child, to start somewhat of a friendship where the child feels very comfortable with the individual. Then it very incrementally starts to move to a sexualized contact. The conversation will become more sexual in nature, the desensitization through potentially sharing sexually explicit content with the child whether it's images or apparent pictures of themselves which could be real or not, and the making requests or demands of the child.

It happens in a very gradual way to normalize the contact, so that it becomes very hard for kids to understand that this is what's going on until it actually is at a place where they are in over their head, when they realize there is a problem. This is something we are seeing happening to girls more than boys in terms of girls being overrepresented in the reports that we receive. 13-year-old females seem to be the most at-risk for this, although we are seeing younger and younger kids coming in.  To Sarah's point in seeing 10 and 11 year olds, we are as well in the online luring space.

We're also seeing offenders younger. We're seeing offenders engaging and perpetrating these types of offences being in their late teens, early twenties, and mid-twenties. We also are seeing sextortion, and luring can often lead into sextortion. What we're seeing is the goal of the individual who is contacting the youth with online luring is to get sexual content from the child, whether that's live-streamed and they surreptitiously record what the child is doing while live streaming sexual acts, or they ask for sexual images to be shared with them. Typically, that is what they are seeking to obtain to move into sextortion.

Sextortion is something where again we have seen an increase. This happens to males and females. It happens differently to males than it does females, but often luring has been the start of it, and then the individual is extorting the child to send more images and using the content that has been shared to control them. It is often with females where they are demanding more content. They can be demanding this on a day-to-day basis. You could be having a child who is trying to manage this for months to years. We've had individuals where the communication started at 12 years old, and the child didn't come to us until they were 16. They've been managing this on their own for several years without parents being even aware of this.

Or it can be very fast. For males with sextortion, it's typically blackmail, something where someone is demanding that a child or a youth send them a sexual image or a video, and if they don't send it or send more, then they will send it out to all their contact list, or if they don't send money. With males we're often seeing a demand for money. If they don't send them money, then they will send the video that they have of them out to all of their contact list and humiliate them. That's often what the control tactic is, to use degradation and humiliation to get the child to acquiesce and comply, and either send the money, or continue to send more images and content on-demand to try and control the situation. They don't want to tell anybody, often the individual tells them that they in fact have committed a crime by sending sexual content so they could be arrested.

We have kids coming in afraid that they might be charged for what's happened and not understand that they have been victimized and that it's not their fault and that they're not alone, this is in fact happening to lots of other children. Those are really two other areas of criminal code offences to be aware of when we look at this space and image sharing.

(0:19:37)

Alyson: Online child sexual exploitation is a scary topic, but it is an increasing issue in Canada, an it's one we need to talk about amongst ourselves, and we also need to talk to our kids about it. So, what do we need to know about online exploitation and what do we need to look out for? Kristin?

Kristin: Thank you Alyson, and a scary topic indeed, but all the reason why it's so important to talk about it here. Online child sexual exploitation can take many different forms, and it can impact children and teens of any age, and any background. Offenders can be those who victims know personally, who they have met offline, but it can also be someone who they have never met, who they are only engaging with online and could be someone who is misrepresenting themselves online, who your child only thinks they know.

When we speak about online engagement, there is one thing that I want to touch upon which is important. Young people often view people they meet online as friends, even if they don't know them very well and have not met them offline. For them, having that large online presence in a large circle of friends is important to them and therefore they may be more willing or quick to invite individuals into their social circle online. In doing so, they might not necessarily fully understand the risks and implications. It's important as parents and caregivers to understand these nuances and differences in how younger people perceive these relationships online.

Back to online child sexual exploitation, broadly speaking there are two common ways that exploitation can happen. First of all, it can be when a child is sexually exploited offline, and the offence is recorded, and then shared online. The second most common form is when a child is targeted online by an offender, when images or imagery has been produced as a result of them being targeted. In both instances, the images or the recording can circulate online, it can be very difficult to delete them, or to remove them all, and it can be very damaging, as you can imagine, for young people involved and these victims. Also, as the imagery continues to re-circulate online, it continues to re-victimize the child.

In terms of what we are seeing at the RCMP, more specifically at the National Child Exploitation Crime Centre, we are seeing that this is becoming more and more prevalent over time. We're seeing more and more reports coming in. For example in fiscal year 2020-21, the RCMP's National Child Exploitation Crime Centre received over 52,000 reports, complaints, or requests for assistance related to online child sexual exploitation. This is a 510% increase in what we saw back in 2013-14, so we're seeing huge increases. Of course, the pandemic is not helping the situation, where there is now a heightened risk to children online, where they are spending more time, often unsupervised in light of our situation, and offenders are responding to this and taking advantage of this situation. Perhaps Noni can expand on what trends they are seeing at C3P.

Alyson: Please Noni take it away.

(0:23:33)

Noni: Sure thank you. Similarly, at C3P we are seeing the same types of increases. Since 2020 we've seen a 106% increase in reports related to kids who are receiving unwanted sexual messages and images, as well as being coerced into sending their own messages or live streaming sexual acts with individuals. Typically, now we are seeing younger individuals as it relates to this type of contact that's going on, as young as 8 years old, to 17 years old. We also are seeing a lot of young adults as well so 18–24-year-olds who also are experiencing a lot of distress in this space, and we are supporting them through that.

The impacts on kids who have these types of experiences is certainly different. It also is contingent on their age, but we are seeing harmful impacts and a lot of it is tied to the ongoing concern and stress with the fear of the ongoing circulation of their imagery, of what's been created. Not knowing what somebody is doing with the content that is being shared, and the fact that their trust has been betrayed is a major issue. They've shared the content, or they've live streamed with somebody under the guise of a relationship, or under the guise of it being consensual (in some instances from the beginning of it), and then somebody turns on them and starts to become incredibly malicious and starts to humiliate and use a lot of degradation tactics on these kids in a very aggressive way. That can be really harmful, the corrosiveness and the betrayal of trust, but also the ongoing managing of the harassment that ensues, it is very, very difficult.

There's an increase we are seeing happening, and that is a common impact on kids that we see impacts their wellbeing on a day-to-day basis of the intrusiveness of their concern with what's happening online. We do have a lot of support for kids in that regard, in helping them regain a sense of control of the content and getting help. Although a lot of kids are not telling anybody about it, it's important that they know where to go for help. Even if they can start the conversation, not having to go to an adult they know, but being able to go to a place where they can remain anonymous at the start and attempt to get them some more help and involve adults in their lives.

Another situation that we're seeing as well is something called "cappers". This is a newer scenario that we're seeing of individuals, "cappers", looking to get content by capturing images of children. During the pandemic, we saw an increase in individuals communicating for the purpose of securing children's images and boasting about how many they can get. These are more organized individuals wo are communicating with one another for the purposes of not a sexual interest in the children but purely to get pictures of those kids, get them to send pictures, or find pictures of them online, and then use those pictures to again cause harm and humiliation to those kids. That in itself is also something that is reportable, that can come into Cybertip as well as police, so that we can help kids through the distress and the concern over what's happening with the content that's been created.

Alyson: It makes me that much more appreciative that we're having this conversation today because we need education to conquer this, and we need to have those conversations. So let me take our next question because I know myself, and working with parents and caregivers, you know they want support and they really want that pragmatic, nuts and bolts, so how do I have these difficult conversations with our kids about what we've learned about during our panel discussion. How can we talk to them in a way that's going to be effective? What are the when's and the how's that we can talk to our kids, both about the cyberbullying that we started off with, and the sexting, sexual exploitation that you just talked about Noni. How to have that conversation in a way that our kids are more likely to listen to us, which I think is important, but also for this opening up that we need because we want to hear what are their thoughts, what are their feelings and have they had any of these experiences because they can't go it alone, they need our support. How can we help them? How do we have those conversations? Sarah, can I get you to start us off, but I'd like to hear from everybody.

(0:28:46)

Sarah: Thank you Alyson. Talking to a young person in your life about difficult topics can be tricky, and I think the recommendation that you'll hear me say throughout this discussion and as I talk to parents online at Kids Help Phone, is the most important thing you can do is be honest and open with a young person in your life. Make sure that they know that they can come to you if they get in trouble and that you will be there to support them.

The other recommendation that we often make is don't wait until an incident happens before talking to young people in your life about cyber bullying or sexting. When you're talking about cyber bullying specifically, make sure you're not blaming or using accusatory language. While it might be tempting to ask all those questions up front, why, where, how the cyber bullying occurred, those questions might feel overwhelming right after someone discloses to you. Lead the conversation with support and care, they'll be a time for questions later, right now what they need the most is unwavering support through this difficult time.

At Kids Help Phone, when we're talking to young people, they'll often say, "I'm afraid to tell my mom because she's going to freak out" or "my dad is going to be disappointed in me" and as parents one of the best things you can do is just make sure that your child knows you support them no matter what and without judgement.

With regards to sexting, it's important to talk about the consequences of sexting, but make sure you're staying way from scare tactics. This is something that young people are likely feeling some shame about, or nerves about, and we want to make sure that they're coming to us knowing we'll approach them without judgement and that they can turn to us if they need to.

We often hear young people say, "I can't tell my parents about this because they are going to be mad" and we want them to know that while our first reaction might be anger, it's because we care so much about them and we want to make sure that that care is how we're leading conversations with young people.

Alyson: You know that idea that kids don't come to us because they don't want to burden us with more problems, it tells us what are we projecting to our kids about what's going on in our lives right? We have space for your problems children! Noni, can you say more about how we can be better communicators around these very difficult topics?

(0:31:09)

Noni: It's a great question and I think inherently the concern with risks online is that it can be very fearful for parents, it's something that's scary, the thought of that happening, and so it can be emotionally charged. What's important is to step back and take a breath, what we want to do is just another type of safety, just like we talk to kids about all types of safety. We wouldn't be emotionally charged if we were talking to them about putting their bike helmet on or putting their seatbelt on in a car, or a lifejacket on when they get in the water. This is the same thing; they need to have safety strategies and safety competence when they are going online because it's another place where they can encounter unsafe people. When we have the conversations, it should be matter of fact, they should be regular conversations, not a 30-minute crash course.

We want something that's happening on a regular, daily basis, we can do "what if" scenarios, and let them know that number 1, you get it. Understand that there's problems online and that kids can make mistakes. It doesn't define who they are for the rest of their life because they've made a mistake, tell them that you're there to help them, you're the person to come to, that you want to know and can help them, that you can get through anything together, to please tell you because you are the right person. Don't leave it up to them to be the ones to come to you because it's a really hard thing to bring forward and find the right words and to say something that's humiliating or that's embarrassing or shameful.

It's important that parents take the lead and do a lot of check-ins. We package this often in the online space as the three C's. Talking to kids about the content they could come across online. Sexually explicit material is rampant online, and this is something we're seeing kids exposed to earlier than we've ever seen. We see kids that are 8 years old saying if we asked them what would you say to someone looking to stay safe online and they would say "don't google bums". It's a whole different space of what we need to consider because them being exposed to that type of content is harmful developmentally to see content that is sexually violent or aggressive. We need to have those conversations about content, and we need to have conversations about contact, who they might come across online and what some of those risks are.

If someone starts to ask them weird or strand things, then that's not a safe person and they should be able to tell you about that. When they start to move into 11, 12, 13 years old, and someone asks you something sexual, that's inappropriate, that's not a safe person who is pressing boundaries, and you need to come offline from that person and that's a red flag. If someone is asking you to send sexual pictures or naked pictures or to take your clothes off online, that's a problem that person has and that's something I want to know for sure, that's an important thing for you to tell me.

Giving them the lines of what you should tell, what's important to tell, and also conduct, what about how you're doing online. Right now, a lot of kids online are saying they are spammed, or someone just sends them pictures or a naked picture, someone sending them pornography or a naked selfie of themselves. Sometimes kids can see that as a transactional image, that now there is an implicit idea that I'm supposed to return something , now it's a control of forced teaming, that I'm expected to give something back and it's hard to not imagine those things.

It's really about having discussions about how do I manage those transactions, how do I negotiate some of this stuff online, whether it's with a peer, or whether it's an adult who is doing these things. That can happen through what if scenarios, but a big piece is to check in with your kids rather than wait for them to come and tell you. Say you're just checking in and ask if they've seen anything inappropriate, has anyone ever contacted you online? Initiate these conversations, make sure they are ongoing and that there is lots of space for help and resources available through Kids Help Phone, through CP3, through RCMP, so access those resources.

Alyson: Wonderful, the three C's, I love that and those curiosity questions, what if scenarios. Kristin is there something you'd like to add?

(0:36:16)

Kristin: Certainly, thanks Alyson. My colleagues have touched upon how youth might feel if they find themselves in a situation where they might need to reach out for help, and as a parent myself I would hope that my kids would feel comfortable coming to see me if they needed help, but the reality is they may not feel comfortable in certain circumstances. It's important to teach our young people who are these safe adults that they can approach if they need help. It could be a teacher, a school resource officer, another family member, or friend of the family, but it's important that they know who they can reach out to if for whatever reason they are not comfortable in the moment to reach out to a parent or caregiver.

One thing that I also wanted to note is that we may feel that when our kids are at home, they are safe, they are under our roof, we can protect them. With new technologies and the internet these days, the truth of the matter is that even when they are home, they are at risk if they are using these devices online. Offenders know where to find young people online and they have very good tactics and are able to successfully manipulate them. This includes telling children how to ensure that their parents don't find out about what they are doing online, or ensuring that their parents can't disrupt them. My colleague at the National Child Exploitation Crime Centre who is an investigator had once mentioned to me that offenders will go as far as telling young people to place a chair up against the doorknob of their room so that parents can't get in if there is no lock on their door. They are very manipulative, and they will go the extra mile to try and isolate their victims.

We have a few tips and tricks that we like to share in terms of what caregivers can do in their role, which is very important. Somethings that you can implement early on, as soon as your children are using devices. That is they key, that your children are learning early in life so that it becomes very normal and natural. For example, ensure that when our young people are using devices, that it's done in a common area of the room or within the company of others so that they're not isolated or alone in their bedroom.

We encourage parents to keep track of who their kids are speaking to online, who they are engaging with, who their friends are in their social circle. These should only be people that they have met in person. Also, if children and youth are using different platforms like TikTok or Snapchat or YouTube, where there might be a chat function or an option to upload content, ensure that they are not uploading content and that whomever they are engaging with is someone that they know and have met.

We encourage parents and caregivers to also know the phone password and account passwords so that you do have the option to do those check-ins, check out their search history, messages, and if they are posting content. While this may seem intrusive, if you implement some of these strategies very early on it will become natural and in explaining why you're doing this, because you're giving them a tool, a device, and you want to make sure that they are safe while using it, then it will be more understandable from their perspective.

We also encourage parents and caregivers to empower our young people, and engage them in those conversations daily. It will become more natural if you have these conversations frequently. Encourage them to be a part of the solution. We can work with our kids to be part of that solution and this is very empowering to them. Noni had talked about creating scenarios, work with them to see how they would react if they found themselves in a certain circumstance. Help guide them through these exercises so they know what their options are and where to get help.

You could also use this opportunity to allow your kids to educate you. Get them to show you what kind of apps they are using or how their phone works. We're constantly feeling like we're playing catch-up with technology because our younger people are becoming much more tech savvy than us. Use this to your advantage and use this opportunity for them to teach you.

Lastly, I just wanted to highlight that it's so important for parents and caregivers to be aware and educate themselves on issues and risks and how to keep their kids safe online, as well as how to keep themselves safe online. Kudos, because you're all doing just that by attending this panel.

Alyson: And kids do like to get the right answers to those scenarios and to reverse mentor, so what an empowering approach to all of that. I know there are some participants who have been following along here and they may have already experienced problems in this space, or their spidey-sense is that something is off right now, there is something imminent in the near future. My last question for us today is what should they do if this is the case? If this is going on right now, what are the next steps Sarah?

(0:42:25)

Sarah: I'm going to start sounding like a broken record with my answers, but online situations are scary, young people approaching us with this problem will likely be nervous and you might likely be nervous. Being that unwavering support to them is more important now more than ever. Approach your child calmly and respectfully. We know that learning about sexting or cyberbullying or online child sexual exploitation might be upsetting to you, and you want to communicate that severity of the situation to them. Approaching them with anger or frustration will often lead to them shutting down. Approach them with calmness. If you need to take a second, breathe; make sure that you are setting yourself up for a successful conversation with them that will have the best possible outcome.

I'm sure Kristin will be able to touch on this a little bit more, but it's really important to educate yourself. Laws and practices are constantly evolving especially with technology and online spaces. Consult resources to make sure you understand the legality and the risk involved with some of these behaviors online. Finally, ensure that you as a parent or caring adult is feeling supported. These are some big issues and they can cause some big worry for kids but also for adults. Make sure that you are getting some support and that you are feeling okay. That you're supporting yourself so that you can be there for that young person.

At Kids Help Phone, we have councillors and crisis responders who support parents as well as young adults to help them navigate these situations.

Alyson: Thanks Sarah and yes just because it says it's Kids Help Phone, you extend beyond that age limit, just so people are aware of that. Yes you alluded that Kristin might have more to say on the matter can I get your input Kristin?

Kristin: Certainly thanks and great advice Sarah. In terms of where you can access some help, if there's any chance that you feel your child is in imminent risk or danger, please do not hesitate to call 9-1-1. You can also report to your local police if you feel that police involvement is needed. Report to Cybertip.ca and of course Kids Help Phone is also available to you.

One thing that I just wanted to touch upon is that there may be a natural move to want to delete some of those images or material received or produced. We want to encourage people to encourage young people to leave the content and imagery on their phone, just leave it alone until you seek assistance from police. In cases, and Noni touched on this, where offenders are misrepresenting themselves online, it could very well be that young people do not know who they are engaging with online and retaining that evidence could be a huge assistance in an investigation in helping the victim and also in identifying the offender.

Also, I just want to re-emphasize the importance of just having those regular conversations with your kids about this topic. The more normalized it becomes, if you talk about it daily and just naturally, then it will be easier for them to come forward and seek your assistance and speak to you if they find themselves in a situation where they need help.

Alyson: There's no apologies for re-iterating this, we've covered a lot of information and sometimes you got to hear things two or three times before it really sinks in. Kids need that and adults need that too. Noni, do you want to add your thoughts? What are you seeing from the Canadian Centre for Child Protection.

(0:46:30)

Noni: Sure. So just adding to the great information that Kristin and Sarah have shared, I think that sometimes it's important that if you're worried because you have a sense that your child is coming across this kind of stuff or coming into contact with someone, or you've come across the information like what Kristin suggested, when you're thinking of how am I going to bring this up with my child, remember that in the situation where something has gone wrong or their having contact with a concerning person online, that their trust has been betrayed.

They may think that they are in a relationship, or they may believe that what's happening is altruistic or they may have already recognized that they are in a problem. They may deny when you start talking to them. They may not be forthcoming and that is normal. It's normal for them to be embarrassed, ashamed, distressed, angry. When you first bring it up, they might explode and be furious. Those things are normal reactions that we see, because when you think about it if somethings gone on for anybody where they have experienced a sense of betrayal and humiliation.

Often what we're seeing in these cases is that there are more aggressive tactics being used. There is an escalation in control tactics being used purposefully to humiliate children and the contact is very aggressive. There can be some really strong reactions from the kids when it comes out, know that this is something that we are seeing. But on the other side of it is relief, is relief from the kids that they don't have to carry the secret anymore, that it's out, that it's on the table, and that the other side is more calm and now the healing can happen, and support can take place.

Make time for those conversations but please know that you can reach out to Cybertip, you can reach out to police and law enforcement, and to Kids Help phone for support and how to have those conversations, to get ready for those conversations, to discuss your concerns and what you've come across. There is help for you, and we can help you walk through the plan of bringing it forward, securing the content, what's the next step and the aftermath of the explosion that ensues once it comes out. Walking through safety plans with you of what's next for the kids and what to put in place for protective supervision. You don't have to walk it alone, please make sure that you reach out for help because we are here.

Alyson: So the kids come to us so that we can support them, and then we sort of feel like we are the person with the pain point but we've got our support people in the experts that are surrounding us and all the terrific services that you folks provide all the time. I wanted to make sure that we have time for the people that are viewing to participant, and they've been spending time putting questions in the chat so I want to try and turn our conversation over to addressing their needs and specific issues.

The first one that we have here says "my son was video chatting with a girl, and she recorded him taking his clothes off.  It happened over a month ago, but he only just told us. She has been messaging him and been saying that she is going to share the video with friends at school if he doesn't send her $2,000. He is really worried, and embarrassed, is there a way to get rid of the video, what should I do?"

Noni, can they get rid of it?

(0:50:11)

Noni: That's a complicated question, thank you for coming in with that concern. It already shows the incredible relationship that you have with your son in that your child has come forward to tell you this. In the last year alone we've communicated with over 3,000 youth, boys and girls, the majority of which are victims of sextortion, and they are doing it alone – nobody knows, their parents don't know, schools don't know, they haven't told anybody. The fact that he's come forward is fantastic.

What I'd like to say is that in these cases where individuals are coming forward and the youth does think that they are talking to another youth, and in this case, he thinks he's talking to a female youth. In the majority of these cases where they are demanding money like that, $2,000, these in fact are not youth on the other side. These are in fact adults who are engaging with the youth purposefully to manipulate and coerce them into creating content or sending a video or images for the sole purpose to extort them for money. It really is an adult on the other side, and it can escalate when they are saying no. We see this harassment and this escalation in them, continuing to bombard them and use control tactics and fear to get them to comply with their demands of sending money.

For females in cases, we often see a demand for more content and pictures, but for males we're seeing more of a demand for money in these situations. What we would say is definitely stop all communication. It's really important to cease that communication, as Kristin said though it's important to secure that communication that's gone on for investigative purposes if it moves on to law enforcement. Pre-pandemic, that used to stop it, when you stop the communication, typically, they would just move on, we are seeing these individuals coming in on different accounts now, threatening that they've taken a screenshot of a contact list and they will send content out to that contact list. This is something that is often a threat to gain control to get kids to comply, but in fact they don't send it anywhere. In the majority of instances, once you commit to not engage and stop all contact it eventually stops.

What's important is that you do reach out for support and that you do reach out to report it. That can be done through Cybertip, it can be done through law enforcement, the importance is that it needs to be reported to the platforms that are being used to facilitate this type of harassment and sextortion. In terms of the video often the kids don't have the video because it's happened surreptitiously and they have done something live streamed, not something where they've sent images, and the individual has captured the live stream and they have the recording. The kids don't have the recording and they don't have access to that.

If they are overseas, that becomes more complicated as well, in terms of law enforcement intervention to actually obtain those videos. If they do have those videos or if it is something that is sent to them for proof that they have the video, they should save that because then there is something we can do. We have something called Project Arachnid through Cybertip where law enforcement and parents can submit this material into Arachnid and what it does is it's a crawler that crawls the internet and it starts to disrupt the circulation of the content. It's a sort of hope that it won't exist in perpetuity and the circulation will just continue to propagate, we can create a disruption.

Alyson: Tech against tech I love it. The good use of tech against the bad use of tech. Fantastic. Kristin what are you saying with the RCMP there?

Kristin: I have to agree with Noni there for sure, great tips. Certainly, come forward to police who can assist both of you, the parent and child. Help the young man gain control of the situation again and guide him through next steps depending on the circumstances of what's happened. For example, if the identity of this girl who he is speaking to isn't known they are able to take steps to try and identify who this person is.

Another element that's at play here is that the recording and possession of the intimate image would constitute a criminal offence related to child pornography. Again, also important why police should become involved in something like this. More importantly, I recognize this is a very difficult situation both for this young man and for you as a parent. It's important to just reassure him that he is not alone, that you're there for him to work with him through this and again re-emphasizing that you as a parent are not alone you have many avenues of resources and support systems in place for assistance.

Alyson: We do all the right things this too shall pass you know they live in the moment teenagers right? This too shall pass. I have another question, this participant says "I've overheard comments and jokes about one of the kids my daughter goes to school with and I'm worried that she and her friends may be bullying this kid. She's a kind person, a really good kid, I just don't know what's going on and I don't want to assume and be wrong, so what do you suggest?" Kids Help Phone, Sarah this must come into you frequently.

(0:56:42)

Sarah: Yes, for sure this is one that we are quite familiar with. I'd like to say first that the instinct to not make assumptions is actually a really good one. I would approach your daughter to have an open conversation. I've repeated throughout that open conversation is really the key to interacting with young people. Share with your daughter what you've heard and what you're concerned about. Stay calm when you're having that conversation and try to find a time where you're not feeling rushed or have something important coming up. Sometimes parents like to do it right when the kid comes home from school, where all they can think about is dinner, and they want to just rush through that conversation. Find a time where you can really hash it out. Having a conversation, no matter the time it takes is really important.

The conversation might get overwhelming, for you and for your daughter. Take the time to deliberately slow down the conversation, breath, stay calm. You can remind your child that they can reach out to Kids Help Phone, that you can reach out to Kids Help Phone. We are a safe and confidential space where we can talk about what is happening. It's ok if the conversation has to get split into different parts. If it gets really overwhelming, we can pause the conversation and say, "do you want to take a break?" Or "we can talk later tonight." It doesn't all have to happen in one sitting.

Alyson: You know I find kids really want to talk a lot at bedtime when they don't want to go to sleep. I think we have time for one more question. Again, these questions are anonymous and if your question didn't get answered please know that we will be listing all the answers to all the questions anonymously, so watch your email those will be coming out later. But our last question here is "I know I have to monitor what my kids are doing online, which feels daunting because my kids are glued to their phones playing games all the time, on their computer for school etc. How do I check without being invasive? I don't want them to think that I don't trust them, but I don't want them to pull away from me because I am just being annoying." Sarah can I get you to jump on that one?

Sarah: This is a tricky one for sure. I can remember being a kid and a teenager and having that privacy is so important. When talking about parents monitoring their kids' online activity, I sometimes use the analogy of going into their room when the door is closed. If you were going to enter their room, you would typically knock on their door and say what you are coming in for. I'd use the same principal when checking their phone. Ask them before you open their phone and say when you plan on doing it. Let them know what you're  going to be doing and be transparent about it and about why it's something that you feel you need to do.

Also, I would let them know what you're looking for specifically. Photos, text messages, apps, etc. The more information we can give them the more control they will feel and the transparency will help them continue to trust you. The other thing we suggest is that if they are comfortable they can sit with you as you go through the phone. That will also help them have more control over the situation and maybe lead to more discussions and being more open with you in the moment.

Alyson: Wonderful. Noni, how do we not be annoying and still keep our kids safe? How do we stay close and still do all our due diligence?

Noni: Exactly! All these things that parents have on their plates it seems so daunting with the technology. I think what's really important is if you make it really clear. You're the one getting the devices, so the devices are actually yours. With these devices comes the need to supervise them, which is your job, and letting them know that. My job is to help keep you safe, my job is to supervise you.

As your parent my number one concern is your safety and your wellbeing. You're going to be using this technology, I feel you're able to do so, but we're going to go through how to use it safely, what the risks are, how to stay safe, what to do if something goes wrong. I'm also going to be checking this technology, I'll be checking your devices because it's my job to supervise you and to go through them. I'm going to let you know when I'm going to be checking them, it's going to be once in a while, but I am going to be going through it because it's not actually a private space, this is a public space, this is like going to the store.

You're communicating with people, people have access to you, so it really is something where I would make it more of an analogy to a public space. If you are intending for something to be private, it's not the space to be doing it. It is somewhere where you can lose control, we are seeing more phones being hacked into, devices and content being taken, I think it's also a good reality that is isn't a private place.

Reminding them of that but doing it right off the hop, maybe coming up with a contract at first for how they are going to use the device safely so that everyone has the same expectations. If you have to have consequences for when someone makes a mistake or using their phone inappropriately, these things have already been laid out so that it is matter of fact, so it doesn't become overly emotionally charged and it doesn't have to be long lasting.

(1:02:49)

Alyson: We trust them to learn, and we trust them being good digital citizens, because think of all the hours they are on there a lot of it is actually applying the rules and doing right from well so there's a lot of good going on as well.

Well folks, we clearly could talk about this for hours and hours, but sadly our time here is up.  I want to thank our panelists, Kirstin Duval, Sarah Benkirane and Noni Classen for the incredible work they do in our communities. For giving us so generously not only your time today but for all the great wisdom you have managed to accrue through your careers and sharing it with is, so we can better protect the children in our care.

Of the many things I learned myself tonight, I am taking away a few key thoughts to keep top of mind that include

Any child has the potential to just get in over their heads and they are going to need adult support.  They are not bad children or immoral children, be they the victim or the perpetrator.  Both need help. Different kinds of help.  We have to have a close relationship so we can navigate and provide the help needed.

Secondarily, the things that you were talking about with this capping and luring and the technology and the advances. Every parent needs to stay educated and informed on an ongoing basis as these things become more sophisticated as technology advances.  We need to share our learnings with our children so they can be safe digital citizens.

And lastly, you don't need to go it alone parents. There are professionals like our wonderful panelists and resources that can help you navigate your next best steps when you find your child is in a difficult situation, be it sexting, sexploitation, bullying and so forth.  Keep the evidence and reach out for help.

To recap some of the resources we discussed today, you can get support at:

• Cybertip.ca to report and get support for suspected or known incidences of online child sexual exploitation
• KidsHelpPhone.ca offers chat and text support for kids 24/7 from safe adults. Text connect to 686868.
• To get help to remove intimate images or videos from the internet: NeedHelpNow.ca
• Additional educational content and resources: Canada.ca/Cyberbullying and Canada.ca/Child-Exploitation

And much much more under the resource tab for parents and caregivers there too!

So thank you again – thank you panelists, thank you parents and caregivers for your time, we know you have such a busy family life.  We appreciate your comments and questions. Watch your email for the answers to everything we didn't get to that was posted in today's chat. Please help spread this great information to others parents by sharing the archived video and sharing that on your social media feeds, it will be posted on Canada.ca, so stay safe and have a great night.