LANG – Standing Committee on Official Languages – December 6, 2022

Thursday, October 20, 2022, from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.
Videoconference (hybrid, in-person and Zoom)

Report prepared by

Mélodie Terracol, Cabinet and Parliamentary Affairs Directorate
Canadian Heritage
melodie.terracol@pch.gc.ca

Committee members

René Arseneault (LPC) (Chair)
Joël Godin (CPC) (Vice-Chair)
Mario Beaulieu (BQ) (Vice-Chair)
Niki Ashton (NDP)
Marc Dalton (CPC)
Francis Drouin (LPC)
Bernard Généreux (CPC)
Angelo Iacono (LPC)
Arielle Kayabaga (LPC)
Patricia Lattanzio (LPC)
Marc G. Serré (LPC)
Brad Vis (CPC)

Subject of the meeting

Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts

Witnesses

11:00 a.m. to noon

Impératif français

• Jean-Paul Perreault, President
• Édith Gendron, Treasurer
• Fêmi Abigail Houinsou, Administrative and Development Officer

Réseau de développement économique et d’employabilité Canada (RDÉE)

• Jean-François Parent, Manager, Research and Policy Analysis

Noon to 1:00 p.m.

Division scolaire franco-manitobaine

• Alain Laberge, Executive Director

Société Santé en français

• Antoine Désilets, Executive Director

Summary

Impératif français: Jean-Paul Perreault

• C-13 cannot address every aspect of the current inferiorization and trivialization of French.
• No recognition of cultural and linguistic asymmetry in Canada.
• We need to abandon the asymmetrical approach, and federal resources are inadequate.
• Overfunding of English-language postsecondary institutions in Quebec contributes to the underfunding of French-language university institutions.

Réseau de développement économique et d’employabilité Canada (RDÉE): Jean-François Parent

• C-13 is of paramount importance.
• Substantive equality is necessary.
• We should be talking about investing in the capacity of businesses to adequately meet the needs of employees, the workforce and OLMCs. Private businesses are unable to do so at this time.

Questions

Joël Godin (CPC)

• Overfunding of English-language education in Quebec. Where does that money come from?
  • Perreault: Both private and public funding.
• Is the public funding from the federal or provincial government?
  • Perreault: It does not matter. Thirty percent is too much.
• What are the three priorities that should be included in C-13?
  • Parent: Separate measures for Francophone immigration, ensuring that federally regulated businesses provide full equity for Francophone minority consumers and employees, more precise definition of an official language minority.
• Labour shortage in a large company and no one responds to the job advertisement. What should the company do?
  • Parent: Could set up second-language learning programs for current employees. Develop skills internally.
• What will be your priorities in meeting your members’ economic development needs and protecting the French language?
  • Parent: Development of a pathway for economic immigrants via the Francophone immigration policy.

Francis Drouin (LPC)

• How can we ensure that French content is available in a digital world with a sea of English content? Can C-13 help?
  • Perreault: We need to think about programs and means to enable us to adopt a position of international outreach.
• Is there a need for improvement in Francophone immigration, or are you satisfied with the current clauses?
  • Parent: There is always room for improvement. We agree with the FCFA’s opinion.

Mario Beaulieu (BQ)

• Overfunding of English-language universities. Do you have any other important points?
  • Perreault: The airport situation in Canada portrays us as an English-speaking country. We do not have an image as a French-speaking country. This affects Francophone immigration.
• Institutional bilingualism is imposed in Quebec by the OLA. If all interventions are aimed at increasing services in English, does this contribute to the decline of French?
  • Perreault: That equality of status is good for French, but the inequality on the ground is measured by the availability of resources. The French language is in decline.
• Do you agree with what many people are saying, that to maintain the demographic weight of Francophones, 90% of language transfers need to be towards French? But the government uses the first official language spoken to determine … (time cut off)

Niki Ashton (NDP)

• What do these tiny numbers say about the federal government’s efforts to attract Francophone immigrants to Canada?
  • Parent: Consular presence is a problem. There is a question of non-representativeness and inequity in relation to the place of French in the international arena, and a rebalancing is necessary.
  • Perreault: Quebec claims exclusive jurisdiction over immigration with a territorial approach, and I support that approach. The entire immigration sector should be under Quebec’s jurisdiction. Immigration and education are key.
• Do we have enough personnel to teach French? Is there demand abroad for Francophone teachers?
  • Parent: The answer is no. There is not enough personnel to meet the demand. Every region of Canada has a labour shortage. There is strong international demand, but this raises the question of credential recognition.

Brad Vis (CPC)

• French school problem in B.C. How can we change this situation? Question of incentive transfer to teachers?
  • Perreault: Phenomenon of assimilation. If the B.C. government wants French teachers, it should look internationally via Francophone immigration.
  • Parent: Francophone minority education program demonstrates an appetite for living in both official languages and represents an opportunity in the job market. This is an investment that Canadians would like to see.
• It is impossible to get services in both official languages at airports. How can we improve the level of French of workers in federal institutions? (Time cut off)

Arielle Kayabaga (LPC)

• IRCC’s immigration policy. What will the impact be on the demographic weight of the Francophone population, the vitality of French, and the country as a whole?
  • Parent: We need better metrics and a specific framework for measuring Francophone immigration that will provide organizations with a better measure of how things are changing. We also need an accountability framework and objectives that will allow us to conduct more rigorous monitoring and have a restorative target in the coming years.
• Can you give us some details on your suggestion of a separate Francophone immigration program that would not be mixed?
  • Parent: Such a program would promote economic immigration and directly meet existing needs on the ground. This would require a study to see the segmented needs of the communities.
• This is a good approach.
  • Parent: It allows for a targeted approach that meets the needs of the communities. A whole approach “by and for” the communities.

Mario Beaulieu (BQ)

• Under the criterion of first language spoken, the federal government aims to ensure that 33% of Quebec immigrants have access to services in English. Is this not tantamount to an effort to make Francophones a minority in Quebec?
  • Perreault: It is about vision. The federal government needs a territorial approach in Canada. There is political manipulation when funds are given to organizations that promote French.

Niki Ashton (NDP)

• Can you talk about the efforts the government is making in Africa to attract French-speaking people to Canada? What should the government do about the obstacles?
  • Parent: Increase pre-departure services and inclusion of the economic dimension in the equation. We must increase the attractiveness of our Francophone minority communities.

Summary

Division scolaire franco-manitobaine: Alain Laberge

• We welcome paragraph 10 of the preamble.
• We must ensure that significant and continuous investments are made and that francization programs can be offered in both urban and rural areas.
• Improvements to paragraphs 7 and 8: Being committed to enhancing the vitality and supporting the development of English and French linguistic minority communities—taking into account their uniqueness, diversity and historical and cultural contributions to Canadian society—as an integral part of the two official language communities of Canada.
• Improvement in paragraph 10: Underscore the importance of supporting sectors that are essential to enhancing the vitality of French linguistic minority communities; recognize the importance of providing opportunities for everyone in Canada to learn a second official language; recognize that the Constitution provides every person with the right to use English or French in debates in the Houses of the Legislature of Quebec and the Legislature of Manitoba; support the development of English and French linguistic minority communities in order to protect them; and advance the equality of status and use of the English and French languages within Canadian society, taking into account that French is in a minority situation in Canada and North America.
• The importance of the elements taken from the definitions and interpretations section, including the three elements of language law, must be emphasized. Rights holders lost the privilege of having their children educated in French. The statement with the three language rights must be interpreted in such a way as to address past wrongs.

Société Santé en français: Antoine Désilets

• Health is mentioned only in Part VII, section 6.
• We support all of the FCFA’s recommendations.
• Two recommendations:
  • Reaffirm the power to attach conditions as part of the federal government’s spending power, particularly in the areas identified in Part VII, subsection 6. For example, conditions on
    • Standardized data collection by the provinces and territories
    • The health status of OLMCs and the services they receive
    • The provision of essential services in both official languages in relation to government priorities and certain levels of service
  • Distinguish between the concepts of health services and public health. These could include culture, education, justice, and health, including public health, which would enable the federal government to develop genuine public health and health promotion programs.

Questions

Joël Godin (CPC)

• How can we put in place tools and statutory provisions to ensure that action can be taken in the provinces and territories? What would be the best amendments to the language clauses to make them effective?
  • Laberge: We must give newcomers access to francization courses in urban areas and cities. We need to support them. We need to promote the equality of status and the use of English and French in Canadian society.
  • Désilets: The recognition of spending powers must be added to the Act.
• I intend to table an amendment to the language clauses. What about adding a dedicated envelope for provinces and territories interested in taking measures for minorities? Is that realistic and effective?
  • Laberge: Absolutely. There should be transparency.
  • Désilets: It could be a good amendment, but it does not negate the leadership shown by the federal government.
• If you have other wording to strengthen the bill and the language clause amendment, please write to the Committee.

Patricia Lattanzio (LPC)

• Investments and the number of French teachers. Do you see any other avenues or requests for investment that could enhance and maintain French in Manitoba?
  • Laberge: We need to have buildings, to give parents the choice and to ensure that section 23 is considered in its entirety.
• We have received the new census and the rights-holder data. Could you elaborate on the results of those statistics?
  • Laberge: The initial statistics did not include rights holders. In the latest data from August and September, there is a substantial increase in the number of students who want to learn French, but few schools are available. Section 23 and the new census will allow us to expand that pool, but we still have to fight with government departments since we lack data. The new data will help us.
• You mentioned a survey on health. What is the pool covered by those data? How many people were surveyed and over what period? Before or after the pandemic?
  • Désilets: I do not have the exact number of people, but the data were collected before the pandemic. The SSF believes that the pandemic has had a greater impact on minority communities.
• Do you believe that all communications should be in both official languages? Even in an emergency?
  • Désilets: Yes.
• Distinction between public health and health services. How does that work for the two types of services?
  • Désilets: Most of the support is for service development at the federal level, and we have an indirect influence since our work is to equip the provinces.

Mario Beaulieu (BQ)

• I have read that about 50% of children of Francophone parents do not have access to a French school. Does this reflect the fact that Francophones are scattered over a huge territory?
  • Laberge: Yes, you are right. The newcomers are all in the same area, and the schools are overflowing.
• C-13 wants to increase funding for immersion schools, but we are talking about increasing funding by and for Francophones. Should we not increase that funding as well?
  • Laberge: I fully agree, but the structure around the students must be in French. French schools must have dedicated budgets for the recruitment of teachers, in part with the help of Francophone immigration.
• Most of the funding goes to immersion schools. Would it be a good thing for immersion schools to be run by Francophones?
  • Laberge: That is a political question. We must have services in French everywhere since we are a bilingual country.
• Section 29.1 and access plans. Should that be introduced outside Quebec for Francophones?
  • Désilets: The question of designation is essential. But we need data.
• Should we have a stronger Bill C-13 to reverse the trend of assimilation of Francophones outside Quebec?
  • Désilets: Yes.

Niki Ashton (NDP)

• Can you describe for us how the RDÉE report and the links to the shortage of education workers apply to the province of Manitoba?
  • Laberge: We need to promote retention. We must have services across the province.
• Do you believe that the federal government needs to do more to attract Francophone educators, including early childhood educators, internationally?
  • Laberge: The federal government understands the importance of investing, but it must attract them and give them a sense of wanting to stay in Francophone communities.
• What could the federal government do to ensure the continuity of French-language health services, and what is the impact of the failure of the Francophone immigration policy?
  • Désilets: I am not an expert on immigration, but in terms of labour availability, it affects Francophones more. Francophone immigration is a solution, and credential recognition is important. The opportunity for training in French is also important.

Marc Dalton (CPC)

• Can you explain how the property disposal process works? Do you have any concrete examples of the process? What works and what does not?
  • Laberge: Francophones and Indigenous Peoples should have first dibs on buildings that are declared vacant or available. It is a very complex process, but we miss chances to acquire them because we are not consulted, nor are Indigenous groups.
• How much of the federal money for Francophones in Manitoba goes to those communities?
  • Laberge: Some of it goes to administering the Bureau de l’éducation française. We get about one-fifth of our budget from the federal government, so about $24 to $25 million per year. It is a complex issue.
• How can we do better for Francophone immigrants?
  • Laberge: We need to welcome them properly, recognize their credentials, and support them for a period of four to five years.

Angelo Iacono (LPC)

• What do you think is essential to include in C-13?
  • Désilets: The language clauses are essential, especially those on results, management by the central agency and clarifying public health.
• What do you see as the main issues for Francophone and Acadian minority communities in C-13?
  • Désilets: You have to recognize in what capacity you can take action. My answer is similar to my previous answer.
• You indicated that there is a lack of data. Could you give us some guidance on what kind of data and information should be collected and for what purpose?
  • Désilets: Data on the capacity of systems and the health needs of official language communities.
• Who should take on that task?
  • Désilets: The provinces and territories. They need to be equipped and funded to help get a good picture of the situation.
• Investment to increase the number of French teachers. Should that be included in C-13? How could we facilitate that investment?
  • Laberge: C-13 should act as a bridge between immigration and education.

Mario Beaulieu (BQ)

• Is there anything in C-13 that could change the assimilation trend for immigrants from Africa?
  • Laberge: It is the intake structure, and it takes federal resolve to ensure that services are available in French.
• I complained to OCOL that a Health Canada program was providing support in English only. How common is that type of situation?
  • Désilets: Sometimes programs that are translated from English are not entirely suited to the reality of the minority situation.

Niki Ashton (NDP)

• Current federal efforts on Francophone immigration. What could the federal government do to help with your requests to meet labour needs and provide the essential services that Francophone communities deserve?
  • Laberge: Consular services are vital and essential. They need to be everywhere and provide more support.
  • Désilets: Good intake facilities and a quality integration process are essential, and we need to ensure that the Francophone environment is a genuine Francophone environment.
• Do you think it is essential to your fields for language clauses to be included in the bill? (Time cut off)

Next meeting

The Committee expected to continue its study on Tuesday, October 25, 2022. The first hour would be devoted to witnesses, and the second hour would be spent on Committee business.