Integrated strategy for human resources and pay
Progress update session, October 2024

Alex Benay: Yes, we’re off to a good start. Thank you for your question. I think there are two or three important points. The first is that the artificial intelligence you’re seeing at the Pay Centre, we want to adopt an artificial intelligence approach within, I’d say, the Employee Contact Centre, first of all. Ensure that agents on the phone all have the same information on every call, and that a follow-up is carried out and managed by an agent in artificial intelligence to facilitate the task. That’s one. Secondly, we’re also slowly looking at how we could add transparency, more transparency to the process when you call. So, knowing where your ticket is at so you can follow its progress. It’s going to take some time. The tools we currently have in place aren’t tools that allow us to do this, I’d say, very easily. We also want to make sure we manage the private information we handle. So, we’re going to have to make sure we do it, I’d say, one small step at a time, but that’s one of the things we’re looking at across the Client Contact Centre, to make sure we’re able to add more transparency at that level.

Alex Benay: I would say—first, the actions, for us, if the cases are closed, we, myself personally, I would like to know. That isn’t a practice we often encourage. This isn’t to minimize the issue or the issue’s impact, it’s just that it’s not something we necessarily do on a regular basis. There will be instances where we close a case. Then there are a number of cases that surround, I’d say, that surrounded the particular case. So when we settle a case and there are other surrounding cases, we will often close them. So that’s one. Two, let us know if that ever happens, because it’s not something that’s necessarily—if you think there has been an impact on your pay, we definitely want to know. So, the reason why we would close, as I mentioned, is because we’re in the process of closing the cases that affect the case, but if it’s something with a financial impact, we definitely need to know about it. So, I’d say, we have a number of, various mechanisms. You can contact us, whether that’s through Facebook or by phone. We’re even going to start answering questions on Reddit. We want to go where people are, and where you start asking your questions, because we want to offer the best possible service. So, if there’s ever an avenue that we don’t cover in the next few months, let us know.

Christine Fox: Maybe I can start, because I actually discussed this with an individual who was in that exact situation. And I have to say it worries me enormously that people would make career decisions because of the pay impacts. That’s why we’re demonstrating some urgency in sort of resolving the challenges that people, that people may encounter. So, I’d say a few quick important things. First, I hope that career decisions are really about the individual’s best opportunities. And I’d say that there are things you can do to help the system, in terms of your decisions, sharing with your managers, encouraging managers to share information about your case in a timely manner. It’s not your responsibility as such. It’s management’s responsibility. At the same time, the accuracy of information and data is key, but what we’re presenting today is really to maybe give you information that will, I hope, reassure you, in terms of commitment for the future, and to make sure that we have a reliable system, where we can prevent issues like this, because it’s an important issue. I recognize the challenges. It worries me that people are making career decisions based on the pay system. So, everything that’s been presented today, everything that will follow, is really about minimizing the impacts and having a pay system that works for our employees and public servants. I think that the data accuracy, the sharing of information with management, the work with your manager for the transfer, so that it’s efficient, I think that these are more things that can help, but the system we’re putting in place and the information that’s been shared today are really to avoid cases like these.

Alex Benay: I completely agree with the worry you mentioned regarding the question. In fact, there’s worry at the individual level, that is, mobility, and an employee’s movement within the enterprise, but there’s also an institutional worry. We want our employees to be able to move, to go to work in places where they can make the greatest possible contribution, where they’re happy to go to work. In short, all the advantages that come with it. I’m assuming that there isn’t an excessive number of situations like this, but what I would say on a pragmatic level is that I would encourage an employee who, frankly, questions themself before making a move like this, to raise this concern directly with the manager, immediately, to bring us into the equation to reassure the employee that things will be done so as to not limit that mobility, which is really necessary, in the individual’s interest and in the institution’s interest as well.

John Kirk: Just from my side, quickly, obviously, I agree with my colleagues. I would say a few things. Yes, it is absolutely the employer’s responsibility to ensure that the transfer is made, but you, as employees, I would tell you, don’t let it go. Make sure that your file follows you. So, contact the department that you’re leaving. Contact the department to which you’re transferring, because often, a pay system isn’t always the problem. We sometimes don’t receive the information until one or two years later. So, it’s hanging around somewhere in the system. So, please make sure to follow up on your file. Second, the data centre that I mentioned in relation to the dashboard we presented, that’s exactly the problem we want to avoid. I find it unbelievable, in 2024, that our employee file follows us, as if it were a paper file, which it often is, from one department to another, when we have the Internet. For the pilot project we’re setting up this year, we’re looking for people to help us. So, if you have experience, if you have ideas, we’re going to talk more about it in January, but we want to hear from you, because we want you to be part of the process to make sure we solve the problem once and for all.

Christine Fox: Maybe I can start. I’ll go very quickly. I’d say, first off, the system that was centralized was not a success with Phoenix, and we recognize that. I don’t think it was necessarily the challenge of centralization, but it was the approach that we took of doing everything at once. We didn’t take the approach of doing it in phases, to learn, to adjust, to ensure success. So, what you’ll notice is different in this approach is really not doing a launch that includes all the departments, all the employees at the same time, but really looking at a centralization that enables an employee’s data to travel with the employee. Centralization that enables us to navigate a less complex system and centralization that takes place in phases, to ensure success.

Alex Benay: A diligent, step-by-step implementation, I could say. If we combine that with the desire or the direction we’re taking, where we’ll minimize not only the number of systems we have, it means that through a centralized system, a system that applies to the entire enterprise, it generates HR management practices that are also standardized with each other. It’s a kind of combination of improvements that I think will minimize the very, very real risk that we experienced in 2016.

John Kirk: Yes, and finally, well, me too. Listen, I totally agree. Really agree. It’s a bit boring as a panel, but I 100% agree with your comments. I’d tell you, according to Goss Gilroy, which is one of the third-party reviews we had in 2017, I believe we’re the only entity in the world to have separated our pay system from the HR systems in the way that we did. And that’s the core of our issue. Therefore, we should talk less about centralizing HR and more about standardizing the way we operate. So, for example, if you’ve never had the opportunity to work for a large multinational company, you get hired on the same day all the time, the day after pay. So, it’s not a question of centralization, it’s just a question of the big multinational companies hiring on the same day all the time, the day after pay, to avoid pay issues. So, that’s where we need to start moving as an entity. Standardization. Maybe less about centralization and more about standardizing our approaches.

Alex Benay: I’m obviously completely biased. The HR community. Thank you, Renée. Thank you to the community for being available. The HR community is somewhat at the heart, if you will, of these anchor points, with managers acting as key players in the system, in the HR process, alongside the employees themselves, the union agents in the departments. And involving them with us, who are designing the system. So, thank you, Renée.

John Kirk: Then, as for us, we’ll certainly take all the help we can. I think that even partly answers the last question. How can we reassure people, when I mentioned that leadership—we’re closely, I mean, we talk to each other almost every day. On top of that, we have the HR community’s leadership. So, it just goes to show; again, I think this time, there’s an alignment, a communication, and a commitment that, I would say, it’s more of a village. It’s going to take the whole village to fix the problem.