Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics (ETHI) - November 21, 2024 - Commissioner's binder

Notice of meeting

https://www.ourcommons.ca/documentviewer/en/44-1/ETHI/meeting-140/notice

Opening Remarks

OPENING REMARKS FOR BOB HAMILTON, COMMISSIONER, CANADA REVENUE AGENCY

Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics

Appearance on privacy breaches involving the Canada Revenue Agency

Ottawa, Ontario

November 21, 2024

Check against delivery.

Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Agency’s work regarding unauthorized access to taxpayer information.

I am joined today by the Agency’s Assistant Commissioners: Gillian Pranke (Assessment, Benefit, and Service Branch), Marc Lemieux (Collections and Verifications Branch), Sophie Galarneau (Public Affairs Branch and Chief Privacy Officer), and Harry Gill (Security Branch and Agency Security Officer).

Let's be clear: the Canada Revenue Agency has zero tolerance for fraud, and the protection of Canadian taxpayer information remains one of our highest priorities.

In today’s increasingly digital world, the rise in fraud and identity theft has become a global trend. Internationally, responses to these rising trends include the Joint Chiefs of Global Tax Enforcement (J5) convening a special working group targeting cybercrime. The Agency, representing Canada, is an active member of the J5.

Despite the rigorous security controls already in place, the Agency – like any organization – recognizes that it is not immune to these growing trends and acknowledges the concern that privacy breaches and identity thefts cause among those affected.

The Agency does not publicly discuss tax schemes utilized by bad actors, to avoid inspiring other would be fraudsters from following suit. Nevertheless, it’s important to note that a privacy breach does not necessarily mean that our systems have been compromised or that information has been extracted. In the vast majority of cases we encounter, fraudsters access data external to the Agency, attempting to exploit it by posing as real taxpayers.

That said, the Agency has a multi-layered system of defences to identify, protect, detect, and respond to threats like fraud, identity theft, and tax schemes. And we are successful in protecting hundreds of thousands of fraudulent attempts to gain access to personal and business taxpayer accounts.

To support transparency, we report all material privacy breaches to Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat and the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. We also report on privacy breaches at the end of each fiscal year in our Annual Report to Parliament on the administration of the Privacy Act.

When fraud is suspected, the Agency takes immediate precautionary measures on the taxpayer’s account, such as locking it to prevent transactions and conducting in-depth reviews with those impacted. Then our Identity Protection Services program takes over. This service is dedicated to both individuals and businesses, where we offer an accessible, high-touch service to the victims affected by identify theft. When appropriate, we provide credit protection and monitors affected accounts to prevent taxpayers from being re-victimized.

In rare cases where fraudulent funds are paid out, the Agency takes every available enforcement action to return the funds to the Crown and hold the offending parties accountable. This includes criminal investigations that could be referred to the RCMP.

Let me be clear: there is no silver bullet to protect against fraud or privacy breaches. That is why the Agency has implemented multi-layered safeguards, including the multi-factor authentication as a mandatory measure. This requires people to enter a one-time password every time they access the Agency’s login services.

The Agency also regularly performs security assessments, such as vulnerability scanning, penetration testing, and security risk assessments on the Agency’s digital services and systems. We regularly conduct routine checks to identify taxpayer credentials that may have been obtained by unauthorized external parties, and we take immediate steps to revoke these IDs to prevent it from being exploited by fraudsters.

Furthermore, we continually invest in security by improving our technologies, processes, and controls to ensure the security of taxpayer information.

As fraudsters' tactics evolve, the Agency adapts and remains vigilant in its efforts to stay one step ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will be happy to answer your questions. 

Supporting Documentation

House of Commons Order Paper Questions Q-1379 & Q-2954

Q-1379 & Q-2954 (PDF, 8 MB) EN/FR

2023–2024 Annual Report to Parliament on the Administration of the Privacy Act

Annual Report to Parliament on the Administration of the Privacy Act

Information Sheet – CRA Approach to confirmed privacy breaches

The CRA would like to share our approach to handling confirmed privacy breaches. We manage all privacy breaches in accordance with Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat (TBS) privacy policies.

  1. As soon as the CRA discovers or suspects an incident involving potentially compromised information, the incident is immediately contained, in that the individual’s account(s) are locked, preventing the possibility of actions being taken on the account by unauthorized individuals and an extensive review is initiated.
  2. When a privacy breach is confirmed, a dedicated privacy breach response team assesses the incident to determine if there is a risk of harm to affected individuals and if the breach must be reported to TBS and the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada (OPC), in accordance with the mandatory reporting requirement in the TBS Policy on Privacy Protection.  
  3. The CRA reports all confirmed material privacy breaches to TBS and the OPC. In certain cases, the CRA may also provide the OPC and TBS with early notification of an incident.
    • A material privacy breach is a privacy breach that could reasonably create a real risk of significant harm to an individual. Significant harm includes bodily harm, humiliation, damage to reputation or relationships, loss of employment, business or professional opportunities, financial loss, identity theft, negative effects on credit records and damage to or loss of property.
  4. If the CRA determines that a privacy breach creates a risk of harm to an individual, they will be notified, unless circumstances prevent it (for example, no current contact information appears on file). The CRA also protects affected individuals by offering credit protection, when warranted. 
  5. Once a breach has been contained and assessed, the CRA identifies and implements appropriate mitigation and prevention measures to reduce the risk that a similar privacy breach will occur.

The CRA has dedicated extensive resources to the identification, containment, investigation, and mitigation of privacy breach incidents, and has implemented robust processes and procedures to ensure that such incidents are managed in accordance with policy requirements and that affected individuals are protected and notified as soon as possible.

CRA Statement – CRA has zero tolerance for fraud

CRA has zero tolerance for fraud

Issues Notes

Overall Statement

Key messages:

Unauthorized use of taxpayer information by a third party (UUTP)

Key messages:

Total UUTP breaches reported by CRA to the OPC/TBS by FY*
NOT including complex cases (numbers are recorded via individual and BN UUTP PBRs)
Year # material breaches # of affected individuals
2020-2021 1 8,127
2021-2022 7 1,874
2022-2023 28 3,696
2023-2024 72 20,866
2024-2025 34,652 34,705
Total 34,760 69,268
Yearly breakdown of UUTP confirmation
Year Number of material breaches / affected individuals
2020 2,972
2021 16,167
2022 8,651
2023 3,948
Total 31,738

Protecting taxpayer accounts

Key messages:

Reporting privacy breaches

Key messages:

Delay in reporting identity theft-related privacy breaches

Key messages:

Dollars paid out as a result of identity theft-related fraud

Key messages:

Third Party fraud for 2024 tax season

Key messages:

False T4A slips

Key messages:

Fraud-Prevention Measures

Key messages:

Has CRA called law enforcement about the privacy breach reported in the media?

Key messages:

How does CRA work to stop and prosecute fraudsters?

Key messages:

Background

How does CRA work with global partners to stop fraudsters?

Key messages:

CRA's Proactive Approach to Combat Fraud

Key messages:

Web pages: 

Proactive communications:

Tax tips: 

Taxology Podcast:

Advertising initiatives: 

Escape rooms

Be scam smart:

When and how does the CRA inform Canadians about privacy breaches?

Key messages:

Office of the Privacy Commissioner’s investigation

Key messages:

CRA's Transaction Data

Key messages:

Individual tax revenue

Benefits

CRA's Priorities

Key messages:

 

ETHI – Commitee Information

Mandate of the Committee

The Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics studies and reports on matters referred to it by the House of Commons, or on topics the Committee itself chooses to examine under its mandate. It is a permanent committee established by the Standing Orders of the House of Commons. Bills, departmental activities and spending, and other matters related to the general subject matter of the Committee may be referred to it.

Under Standing Order 108(3)(h), the Committee’s mandate is to study matters related to reports of:

The Committee considers the Estimates of:

  • Office of the Information Commissioner
  • Office of the Privacy Commissioner
  • Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
  • Office of the Senate Ethics Officer
  • Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying

Other Responsibilities under the Committee’s Mandate:

  • Proposing, promoting, monitoring and assessing of initiatives which relate to access to information and privacy across all sectors of Canadian society and; to ethical standards relating to public office holders.
  • This includes the review of and report on any federal legislation, regulation or Standing Order in these areas.

Committee Members

Committee members
NAME & ROLE PARTY RIDING ETHI MEMBER SINCE
CHAIR
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil October 2022
Also a Member from December 2021 to February 2022
VICE-CHAIRS
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour April 2024
René Villemure
Critic for Ethics, Privacy & ATI
Bloc Québécois Trois-Rivières Member & Vice-Chair since Dec 2021
MEMBERS
Michael Barrett
Critic for Ethics and Accountable Government
Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes October 2022
Also a Member from February 2020 to August 2021
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo September 2024
Michael Cooper
Critic for Democratic Reform
Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton September 2024
Matthew Green
Ethics Critic
New Democratic Party Hamilton Centre December 2021
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston – Richmond East December 2021
Brenda Shanahan
Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle September 2024
Iqra Khalid
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue
Liberal Mississauga – Erin Mills December 2021
Anthony Housefather
Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board
Liberal Mount Royal February 2024

Bio of the Commitee Members

CHAIR – John Brassard (Barrie—Innisfil)

Conservative

John Brassard

Elected as the Member of Barrie—Innisfil in 2015, re-elected in 2019 and 2021

Served on multiple committees in the past, including Scrutiny of Regulations, Veterans Affairs and Procedure and House Affairs

Previously served as Member of the Board of Internal Economy and House leader of the official opposition during the 44th Parliament and Deputy Whip during the 42nd and 43rd Parliaments

Before his election in 2015, Mr. Brassard was a firefighter and city councillor for the Barrie City Council

1st VICE-CHAIR –Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour)

Liberal

Darren Fisher

Elected as the Member of Parliament for Dartmouth-Cole Harbour in 2015 and re-elected in 2019 and again in 2021.

Currently a member of the Standing Committee on National Defense.

He previously served as a member of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development, and the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

In 2009, he was elected to Halifax Regional Council and re-elected in 2012

2nd VICE-CHAIR – René Villemure (Trois-Rivières)

Bloc Québécois

René Villemure

Elected as the Member for Parliament in 2021 for Trois-Rivières (Québec)

Bloc Critic for Ethics, Privacy and Access to Information

Also serves on the Subcomittee on Agenda and Procedure for ETHI

He is an Executive Member of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophie and sits on multiple Parliamentary Associations.

Mr. Villemure is a well-known Ethician in Quebec, often appearing on Quebec news channels in the past for matters related to Ethics

He has a PhD in philosophy from the Université de Sherbrooke.

Michael Barrett (Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes)

Conservative

Michael Barrett

Elected as the Member of Parliament in 2018 for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, re-elected in 2019 and 2021

Conservative Shadow Minister for Ethics and Accountable Government

Also sits on the Standing committee on Government Operations and Estimates, as well as the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying (Vice-Chair)

Previously served on many committees, including Justice and Human Rights, Health and Procedure and House Affairs

Prior to his election, Mr. Barrett served in the Canadian Army and worked as a human resources manager

Also served as municipal councillor in Edwardsburgh/Cardinal from 2014 to 2018.

Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo)

Conservative

Frank Caputo

Elected as the Member of Parliament in 2021 for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo

Also served on the Public Safety and National Security committee, Justice and Human Rights committee as well as the Veterans Affairs committee

He has served as the Associate Shadow Minister for Justice & Attorney General and the Shadow Minister for Veterans Affairs.

Before his election, Mr. Caputo worked as a worked as a Crown Prosecutor in Kamloops B.C.

He has a Bachelor of Arts from Simon Fraser University and obtained a Bachelor of Laws (with distinction) from the University of Saskatchewan and a Master of Laws from the University of Alberta.

Michael Cooper (St. Albert—Edmonton)

Conservative

Michael Cooper

Michael Cooper is the Conservative Member of Parliament for St. Albert—Edmonton. First elected in 2015, Michael was re-elected in 2019, and again in 2021.

Michael serves as the Shadow Minister for Democratic Reform.

Michael received a Bachelor of Arts and a Bachelor of Laws, from the University of Alberta.

Serves on ETHI and PROC where he is the vice-chair

Prior to his election, he was the assistant Crown attorney for Brantford.

Served on the Standing committee on Justice and Human Rights.

Also is member of a number of Parliamentary Associations and Interpaliamentary Groups, notably, Canada-Africa Parliamentary Association, Canada-China Legislative Association, Canada-Israel Interparliamentary Group and Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group

Matthew Green (Hamilton Centre)

New Democratic Party

Matthew Green

Elected as the Member of Parliament in 2019 for Hamilton Centre (Ontario), re-elected in 2021

Joint Chair of the Special joint Committee on the Declaration of Emergency

Also on the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure for ETHI 

Previously served on many committees, including Public Accounts, COVID-19 Pandemic and OGGO

Before his election in 2019, he was the first Black Canadian to serve on the Hamilton City Council, from 2014 to 2018. He also worked as an Executive Director for the Hamilton Centre for Civic Inclusion.

Mr. Green has a degree in Political Science from Acadia University. He also attended McMaster University.

Parm Bains (Stevenston–Richmond East)

Liberal

Parm Bains

Elected as the Member of Parliament for Stevenston–Richmond East (British Columbia) for the first time in 2021

Also serves on the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

Prior to his election, Mr. Bains was an instructor at Kwantlen Polytechnic University. He also worked as a media and public relations officer with the British Columbia provincial government

He has attended the British Columbia Institute Of Technology as well as the Royal Roads University, where he got a Masters degree.

Brenda Shanahan (Châteauguay—Lacolle)

Liberal

Brenda Shanahan

TBS-related interests: Timing of the tabling of Public Accounts; Accuracy of the reporting in the Public Accounts; Greening Government.

Elected as MP for Châteauguay—Lacolle in 2015, and re-elected in 2019 & 2021.

Caucus Chair of the Liberal Party

Has served on Public Accounts (2016-2018), as well as Ethics, Government Operations, and MAID committees in the past.

Has served as a member of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP).

Prior to her election, Ms. Shanahan was a banker and social worker, who has also been involved in a number of organizations such as Amnesty International and the Canadian Federation of University Women.

Iqra Khalid (Mississauga–Erin Mills)

Liberal

Iqra Khalid

Elected as the Member of Parliament in 2015 for Mississauga–Erin Mills (Ontario), re-elected in 2019 and 2021

Currently also serves on the Committee for Scrutiny of Regulations as was all the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure for ETHI

She’s on multiple Parliamentary Groups, including Canadian NATO, the Canadian Branch of the Commonwealth and the Canadian Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union

Before her election in 2015, she worked as a legal professional. She has a degree in criminology and professional writing from York University as well as a Juris Doctor degree from WMU-Cooley.

Ms. Khalid was born in Punjab and immigrated in Canada in 1998

Anthony Housefather (Mount - Royal)

Liberal – Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board

Anthony Housefather

Elected as the Member of Parliament for Mount Royal (Quebec) in 2015 and re-elected in 2019 and 2021.

Sits on the Standing Committee of: Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics and Justice and Human Rights.

He also sits on the executive of the Canada-US Parliamentary Friendship Group and is the Chair of the Canada-Israel Parliamentary Friendship Group as well as the co-Chair of the International Task Force on Online Antisemitism with US Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

Anthony has two Law Degrees (B.C.L. and LL.B.) from McGill University and an MBA from Concordia University’s John Molson School of Business

Was first elected to office in 1994. He was initially elected as a municipal councillor in Hampstead, then elected in Côte-Saint Luc/Hampstead/Montreal West and served as Mayor of Côte Saint-Luc between 2005 and 2015.

References in Parliament

House of Commons Question Period – October 28, 2024

Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, CPC): 

Mr. Speaker, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada indicated in various reports that there were only 113 privacy breaches within the Canada Revenue Agency between 2020 and 2024. However, now Radio-Canada is reporting that there were more than 31,000 security breaches that directly affected 62,000 Canadian taxpayers. CRA is now saying that it issued payments totalling $190 million in connection with confirmed cases of fraud since 2020. Will the outgoing national revenue minister hand over the file to the RCMP so that Canadians can recover the $190 million in stolen money?

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, let me begin by saying that fraud is totally unacceptable and we are taking the necessary measures to address it. It is true that the Canada Revenue Agency is a target of choice because we have a lot of personal information within the agency. Also, we administer very significant payments and tax returns. However, our systems are robust. The CRA has protection procedures for detecting and blocking fraud. Every time fraud is detected, the individual concerned is immediately notified. I can assure the House that we are taking all necessary measures to deal with this situation.

Mr. Adam Chambers (Simcoe North, CPC): 

Mr. Speaker, after nine years of the Liberal government, the Prime Minister is not worth the cost. In the latest scandal to hit the Canada Revenue Agency, over 60,000 taxpayers had their personal, private information hacked. Not only is the information of these individuals floating around on the Internet, but this also cost taxpayers money. Over $190 million has been improperly paid to scam artists because of privacy breaches at revenue Canada. Will the minister get information and call in the RCMP about this privacy breach so that taxpayers can be repaid?

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, fraud is completely unacceptable. We agree on that. I can assure the House that our government is taking appropriate action. It is true that the Canada Revenue Agency is a prime target because we have a lot of personal information. We also administer a lot of benefits and tax refunds. However, the CRA's systems are solid. We are able to deal with and block attempts at fraud, inform those affected and ensure the necessary follow-up.

House of Commons Question Period – October 31, 2024

Mr. Jean-Denis Garon (Mirabel, BQ): 

Mr. Speaker, on this Halloween, the worst house of horrors is here in Ottawa, the Canada Revenue Agency. Fraudsters got $6 million in fraudulent tax refunds. The agency was not even able to realize that different people were being paid in the same bank account. That is not all. There is a smart guy who fudged his tax returns to try to get a $40 million refund. The agency had time to refund him a small amount of $10 million before the guy's bank warned the agency that something was fishy. How many other fraudsters are there with both hands in the cookie jar?

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, once again, fraud is completely unacceptable, and I can assure my colleagues that we are taking the necessary measures to deal with the situation. Obviously, with all the personal information it has, the Canada Revenue Agency is a prime target. However, it is not the agency that is directly targeted, but it is often the information that we, as citizens, share through various systems. As individuals, we need to be careful. I want to assure my colleagues that the agency is very vigilant, that we have experts who are very careful and that as soon as a fraud is detected, the account is frozen and the individual is informed.

Mr. Jean-Denis Garon (Mirabel, BQ): 

Mr. Speaker, the minister might think this is our fault, but we want to know how many other times the Canada Revenue Agency has been a victim of fraud as a result of a lack of verification, because the CRA has been hiding the real numbers. Since 2020, the CRA has notified the Privacy Commissioner of 113 cases where taxpayers' personal information was used to commit fraud. When questioned by the media, the CRA revealed that it was not 113 cases but more than 31,000 cases. As for the Minister of National Revenue, she is a real ghost. She is refusing interview requests. Is the government not tempted to tell the truth the first time around every once in a while?

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, I say what I do, I do what I say and I am not hiding. However, it is important for people to know that the law prohibits the Minister of National Revenue from discussing specific cases. The CRA is very well equipped. We have experts. We are working with all kinds of specialists and with other countries to share best practices. In fact, the J5, the Joint Chiefs of Global Tax Enforcement, were in Ottawa just two weeks ago. I want to assure my colleagues that we have the experts we need and that we are doing what needs to be done.

Mr. Jean-Denis Garon (Mirabel, BQ): 

Mr. Speaker, fraud is on the rise at the Canada Revenue Agency because no one is doing the proper checks, including the minister, who has the power to launch investigations. Then there are the cases where the CRA is defrauding itself, as was the case with 330 employees who had to be fired because they approved themselves for CERB, the Canada emergency response benefit. The vampires were running the blood bank. The CRA is haunted with issues of audits, accountability, transparency and leadership. It could use a little exorcism. When is the minister going to clean house?

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, once again, the CRA has 60,000 employees. As we went through COVID-19, there were many countries that envied us because Canada and our Liberal government did what it took to help people and businesses. That is why we bounced back so much better than many other countries in the world. Yes, there are 60,000 employees, but everyone who received CERB was individually checked. The CRA does not gift cheques. We have taken the necessary HR measures.

House of Commons Question Period – November 18, 2024

Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ): 

Mr. Speaker, the media recently reported that scammers are taking full advantage of the Canada Revenue Agency's complacency to get their hands on bogus tax refunds. Radio-Canada, however, reports that the CRA has no idea how badly it needs to clean up its act. Instead of tackling fraud and bad practices, the CRA is going on a witch hunt to find out who is talking to reporters. Managers are going so far as to spy on the contents of their employees' computers. Instead of addressing the problem, they are shooting the messengers. Will the minister ask the CRA to go hunt down the scammers, not the whistle-blowers?

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, some things need to be called out. In fact, that is why we are supporting a Bloc Québécois bill. If I were to publicly share information subject to the Income Tax Act, I would be liable to seven years in prison. It is serious. Considering that CRA employees also have a professional obligation to protect the integrity of the tax system, it is important to remind them of their obligations.

Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ): 

Mr. Speaker, scammers made off with millions of dollars in bogus refunds because the Canada Revenue Agency did not bother to check before paying out the money. The CRA then communicated with its employees not to ask them to tighten up their auditing processes, but to ask them to stay quiet. CRA leadership thinks that their main problem is not fraud, but the media. What we need is accountability, and accountability begins with protecting whistle-blowers, not scammers. Will the minister address the total lack of ethics at the Canada Revenue Agency?

Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is confusing things. There are two very different issues here. I can, however, assure the member that at the CRA, we take this mistake very seriously. We have very professional teams who are working on this. We have different strategies. We are working with the RCMP, with the financial institutions, with our international partners. There are several safety nets to catch them. The CRA is a target of choice, obviously, with the information we have, the benefits we pay out and the credits we process, but I can assure the House that we are still doing good work.

Points of Order

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: 

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order to make a correction to an answer I gave earlier during oral question period. If I disclosed information that is protected under the Income Tax Act, I could be sent to prison for 12 months.

House of Commons Question Period – November 19, 2024

Mr. Alain Therrien (La Prairie, BQ): 

Mr. Speaker, Radio-Canada obtained documents proving that the Canada Revenue Agency has known for months that, when it comes to fraud, it is about as watertight as a sieve. It has known since November 2023 that scammers were receiving bogus tax refunds. Instead of sounding the alarm, the CRA is covering up the problem. The CRA is hiding it from taxpayers, who have been robbed of more than $100 million this year. It is keeping them in the dark about the fact that 31,000 of them had their personal information stolen. Instead of trying to fix this, it decided to investigate its own employees to silence the whistle-blowers. Will the minister clean house?

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, what my colleague is saying is false. We did not hide anything whatsoever. I can assure the House that as soon as a tip comes in about potential fraud, we take the situation very seriously. The people concerned are called immediately. Their account is frozen immediately. Checks are done to identify the fraudsters, and our systems are tightened up accordingly. We duly report all incidents to the Treasury Board, to the Privacy Commissioner and in the public accounts.

Mr. Alain Therrien (La Prairie, BQ): 

Mr. Speaker, that is impressive. When it comes to crisis management, the Canada Revenue Agency is an example of what not to do. Here is the CRA approach to not solving a fraud problem. First, cover up the crisis until it makes the news. Second, conceal thefts of personal information from the Privacy Commissioner. Third, hunt down the whistle-blowers, not the scammers. I could not make this up. In short, the CRA directors are more interested in avoiding blame than solving the problem. Their number one priority is to cover their butts. Is the minister going to set them straight on their priorities?

Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of National Revenue, Lib.): 

Mr. Speaker, I am willing to do whatever it takes. We are already doing that. My colleague's claims are false. They are completely false. We did not cover up anything. As soon as the system is breached or an attempted fraud is detected, the account is frozen. The affected individuals are notified. We find the scammers and report the incident. Yes, we report the incident in accordance with our procedures. We now provide quarterly reports to the Treasury Board, to the Auditor General and in the public accounts.

Senate Question Period – October 29, 2024

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): 

Senator Gold, yesterday Canadians learned that the Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA, has been massively under-reporting privacy breaches that have paid out millions to scammers. The CRA previously told the Privacy Commissioner that 113 privacy breaches had occurred over the past four years. They now admit the real number is 31,000 — 113 to 31,000 — impacting 62,000 taxpayers. The Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA, also admitted it has authorized $190 million in payments connected to these breaches between 2020 and earlier this month. Leader, this is absolutely not worth the cost. When did the NDP-Liberal government learn that the CRA hasn’t been telling Canadians the truth, and is that $190 million gone for good? Can you confirm that I did not previously give you this question?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): 

I can confirm that you have never given me a question in advance, and I would be shocked if you would. That’s not your job. My understanding is that in the current context — and the CBC broke the story — these were breaches not of the CRA, but of H&R Block, if I recall. I’ve been informed that in the event of fraudulent use of personal data, the CRA — the agency — directly contacts the individuals targeted by the fraudsters and carries out close follow-ups to ensure monitoring and security of these accounts. Indeed, the government has been clear that combatting all forms of tax fraud is an important responsibility of the CRA. The CRA is, unfortunately, a prime target for fraud attempts, and the security measures that are put in place are constantly reinforced to counter these attempts. I’ve been informed that processes and procedures are in place to quickly respond and mitigate threats to taxpayer information and taxpayer accounts.

Senator Plett: 

We were all equally surprised that the CBC finally did their job. When the Minister of National Revenue was asked about this yesterday in the other place, she said that the CRA’s systems are solid and robust. How can this incompetent government say that with a straight face? Can you say that with a straight face given what we have learned? Leader, has this fraud been referred to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for investigation? Yes or no?

Senator Gold: 

I’m not aware of what steps may have been taken or will be taken with regard to the breach that the CBC reported. Again, it’s important for Canadians to understand this was not a breach of the CRA’s security but rather of the tax advising company whose data was, in fact, breached.

Senate Question Period – October 30, 2024

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition):

Senator Gold, yesterday, I asked you about hackers obtaining millions of dollars from the Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA, through privacy breaches. Today we learned of another scam, Senator Gold. Last summer, a taxpayer falsely changed his T4 slips to claim he was owed $40 million. The CRA started paying him the money. That’s right: It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. The CRA started paying him the money without verifying his new tax return. They only discovered the scam when a bank alerted the CRA that he was getting an unusual $10-million payment. Is that also funny, Senator Simons? If this guy had been less greedy he would have gotten away with it, and the CRA wouldn’t have found other similar scams. Senator Gold, how can you defend the incompetence, the neglect, the lack of a competent government doing —

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate):

Thank you for your question. This also gives me an opportunity to correct something that I said yesterday with regard to this issue. When talking about the other breach, I misspoke. H&R Block was the target of the hacking but not responsible for it. I want to go on record and apologize for my error. With regard to your question, this story is an incredible one. I believe it was the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, or CIBC, that flagged the issue to the CRA — and good on them, as we would say. Tax fraud is an important responsibility. The CRA does its best, knowing that it’s a prime target for fraud attempts. Indeed, as I’ve mentioned, it is regularly upgrading its defences and looking out for fraud. With regard to any further comments, I really can’t make them —

Senator Plett:

Where is the accountability? You’ve increased the number of employees at the CRA by two thirds since 2016, yet it doesn’t seem like any of them are rooting out fraud. The minister responsible for the CRA is one of the four Trudeau cabinet ministers with one foot out of the door, so she’s certainly not minding the shop. I doubt if anyone is, Senator Gold. Who’s taking care of Canadian taxpayers?

Senator Gold:

The CRA has an enormous responsibility and an enormous job to do. It certainly had an enormous responsibility during the years of the pandemic. Many of these issues, if my understanding of the reporting is correct, had their origins in that area, but, again, it’s taking steps to enhance its security and doing everything it can to protect itself — and, therefore, Canadians — against fraud.

https://nikiashton.ndp.ca/news/ndp-mp-niki-ashton-calls-parliamentary-study-hacking-cra-taxpayer-accounts - October 28, 2024

Recent House of Commons Order Paper Question:

Q-31492 — October 29, 2024 — Mr. Aboultaif (Edmonton Manning) — With regard to media reports that the CRA discovered hackers had used H&R Block credentials to get unauthorized access into hundreds of Canadians' personal CRA accounts, change direct deposit information, submit false returns and pocket more than $6 million in fraudulent refunds: (a) how many users' accounts were accessed; (b) how many accounts had their direct deposit information changed by hackers in this instance; (c) how many false returns were submitted; (d) how much money was paid out in fraudulent refunds; (e) how much of the fraudulent refund money has since been recovered; and (f) how much of the fraudulent refund money does the CRA (i) expect, (ii) not expect, to recover in the future?

Note: Response due to be tabled in the House of Commons in December 2024. 

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